too many laws, too confusing

This is a discussion on too many laws, too confusing within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Don't get mad at me for this, I'm just posting soem of my thoughts here. I have several CCW permits, NY including NYC, CT, and ...

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Thread: too many laws, too confusing

  1. #1
    New Member Array cjg1118's Avatar
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    too many laws, too confusing

    Don't get mad at me for this, I'm just posting soem of my thoughts here. I have several CCW permits, NY including NYC, CT, and FL. NY does not have a stand your ground law but CT does. FL has a stand your ground law but i don't have any idea about the other 30+ states I can carry in. So i am basically going to always respond as if i am in a state that does not have a stand your ground law and risk gettign shot in the back while i am tryignto run for my life. NY laws suck for my out of state friends and i dont think it is fair to any of you. However, I am limited to a 10 round mag. Carolyn McCarthy believes this restriction could have save lives during the 93 LIRR massacre where she lost her husband. Colin Ferguson, her husbands murderer, got his Ruger from a gun store in California with 2 15 round mags and brought it back to NY illegaly, carried it illegaly, and used his firearm illegally. He got a 350 yr sentence for his actions. McCarthy's new ban would tack on 10 yrs... well, thank God because we here in NY were concerned he might be parolled.

    Any, does anyone agree with these few ideas that may make sense for everyone?
    1. Have a CCW and it is good in every city and state and territory of the US.
    2. Instead of restricting the mag capacity of a handgun, restrict extended magazines.
    3. Castle Docrine and Stand your ground should be streamlined.

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjg1118 View Post
    Don't get mad at me for this, I'm just posting soem of my thoughts here. I have several CCW permits, NY including NYC, CT, and FL. NY does not have a stand your ground law but CT does. FL has a stand your ground law but i don't have any idea about the other 30+ states I can carry in. So i am basically going to always respond as if i am in a state that does not have a stand your ground law and risk gettign shot in the back while i am tryignto run for my life. NY laws suck for my out of state friends and i dont think it is fair to any of you. However, I am limited to a 10 round mag. Carolyn McCarthy believes this restriction could have save lives during the 93 LIRR massacre where she lost her husband. Colin Ferguson, her husbands murderer, got his Ruger from a gun store in California with 2 15 round mags and brought it back to NY illegaly, carried it illegaly, and used his firearm illegally. He got a 350 yr sentence for his actions. McCarthy's new ban would tack on 10 yrs... well, thank God because we here in NY were concerned he might be parolled.

    Any, does anyone agree with these few ideas that may make sense for everyone?
    1. Have a CCW and it is good in every city and state and territory of the US.
    2. Instead of restricting the mag capacity of a handgun, restrict extended magazines.
    3. Castle Docrine and Stand your ground should be streamlined.

    1. Have a CCW and it is good in every city and state and territory of the US.

    NO - I believe in States Rights - the Federal govt. should not be telling my state what their laws must allow.

    2. Instead of restricting the mag capacity of a handgun, restrict extended magazines.

    NO - punish criminals - not people who are law abiding ( IMHO you need to stop listening to NY politicians )

    3. Castle Docrine and Stand your ground should be streamlined.

    As I write this - my state (PA) is working on passing a modified castle doctrine law - we will fix our problems without Federal Interference.

    Good luck with your state.
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  4. #3
    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    1. I'm still conflicted on this topic.
    2. Please explain how this makes sense for everyone. It doesn't make sense to me, I should be able to carry a 90 round magazine in my smith and wesson; if they made one and I had any desire to of course.
    3. Define streamlined....It is already pretty much straight forward in the states that have it. If you mean every state should have it, then I agree.

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    1. No, do you really trust the feds to get into this?

    2. No, it's that pesky shall not be infringed thing. Lets at least try to keep whats left.

    3. I like both types of law. But leave it to the states. And if your state does not have it, get behind candidates that do. I have written a bunch of emails in the last 3 years. And we are getting close in NC.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjg1118 View Post
    Any, does anyone agree with these few ideas that may make sense for everyone?

    1. Have a CCW and it is good in every city and state and territory of the US.
    2. Instead of restricting the mag capacity of a handgun, restrict extended magazines.
    3. Castle Docrine and Stand your ground should be streamlined.
    Should free citizens in a free state be legally authorized to carry the means of their own defense everywhere? Absolutely, with the exception IMO of an exceedingly short list of risky venues.

    Should magazine capacity be restricted? No, I don't think it should. Whether one person's situation not requiring X amount of shots is true, that's irrelevant to another situation in which Y number of shots is needed to halt the threat. The trouble is, practically any number of shots can be necessary, depending on the situation. With ~80M+ firearms owners in the USA, IMO a few instances of shooting 'til "dry" by felons doesn't warrant restriction of every firearm for everyone everywhere, as if that would actually materially improve safety or security of citizens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjg1118 View Post
    Don't get mad at me for this, I'm just posting soem of my thoughts here. I have several CCW permits, NY including NYC, CT, and FL. NY does not have a stand your ground law but CT does. FL has a stand your ground law but i don't have any idea about the other 30+ states I can carry in. So i am basically going to always respond as if i am in a state that does not have a stand your ground law and risk gettign shot in the back while i am tryignto run for my life. NY laws suck for my out of state friends and i dont think it is fair to any of you. However, I am limited to a 10 round mag. Carolyn McCarthy believes this restriction could have save lives during the 93 LIRR massacre where she lost her husband. Colin Ferguson, her husbands murderer, got his Ruger from a gun store in California with 2 15 round mags and brought it back to NY illegaly, carried it illegaly, and used his firearm illegally. He got a 350 yr sentence for his actions. McCarthy's new ban would tack on 10 yrs... well, thank God because we here in NY were concerned he might be parolled.

    Any, does anyone agree with these few ideas that may make sense for everyone?
    1. Have a CCW and it is good in every city and state and territory of the US.
    2. Instead of restricting the mag capacity of a handgun, restrict extended magazines.
    3. Castle Docrine and Stand your ground should be streamlined.
    Without getting into specifics, "too many laws, too confusing," says it all. And that is true for almost everything nowadays and not just gun issues. State taxation of things like income, inheritance, gifts, property, are all legal quagmires and hodgepodges. Collectively the conflicting state taxation laws make the IRS look streamlined. And that is just one example of many areas besides gun laws where the problem exists.

    There are ways to fix this stuff but not when folks take knee jerk state's rights positions as an excuse to oppose any possible interstate fix. Again, this is true on a wide array of issues and not just gun issues. It is an "insane" situation to be in within our modern world.

    1) Yes, we need a CHL that is good in all states. There is a bill in Congress which comes very close to accomplishing that but it is opposed by some here on state's rights grounds.

    2) I don't understand what you mean by instead of restricting the capacity of handguns, restrict extended magazines. In any case, I'm sort of agnostic on high capacity magazines.

    I think we have had relatively few rather rare incidents where magazine capacity limitations would have made any difference. OTOH, I'd like for my police to have an advantage.

    I'm quite satisfied that I can defend myself, my home, with a 5 shot S&W 642, an 8 round .40 semi-auto, a 7 round .380 and a 7 round shotty. I have no need or desire to own high capacity but I concede that some folks will enjoy throwing 50 cent pieces and dollar pieces down range at the rate of 60 a minute from a drum. I can't afford that, so I don't care. Me, I have no plans to go to war.

    3) Castle doctrine and stand your ground are actually state issues as interstate commerce and travel is not involved unless you have one foot in one state and one in the other. It would be nice if the self defense laws of all states followed some sort of model law drawn up at a conclave of representative of the various attorneys general offices from each state or governor's appointees. There is plenty of solid middle ground between always having a duty to retreat and not having one at all. That said, castle doctrine ought to apply within everyone's home as a fundamental right. Things get trickier when on the street and out in public as the numerous discussions here on various scenarios demonstrate.

    We have a crisis in the US now in that there simply are too many laws on the books with too many state to state variation and too much irrationality and ambiguity in them. No longer can a person rely on good faith and common sense to keep on the right side of the law, and that is wrong. I think it will be a future civil rights issue.

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    First point...Carolyn McCarthy is a complete idiot.
    Now that we all agree on that point...

    Knowing the laws of the state(s) in which one travels is extremely important, and it is not impossible to research prior to any trips or vacations...there is a plethora of information on the internet as well as well-read residents of every state on this forum. I wouldn't trust my well-being to info gained here, but it can give you the sources to look at before you travel.

    When it come to travel in places not friendly to CCW, I simply avoid travel in those states. I have driven around a state to avoid spending my money where my freedoms are trampled...I'm just sayin'...
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    VIP Member Array Brass63's Avatar
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    States' Rights shouldn't ever trump the Bill of Rights.
    When it comes to gun-ownership and CCP there should be a baseline of freedoms and protections that no state can interfere with or infringe upon.
    States are free to be less restrictive than that baseline...but never more.
    Why are some of you in Pro-gun States worried about the Federal enforcement of the Bill of Rights?
    I don't understand it.
    The US Constitution and SCOTUS are our only hope in states like my own here in NJ.
    As for high cap mags (over 21 rounds)...just think it's a non-issue as far as being a threat to public safety.
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    When it comes to states such as IL, NJ, and NY with uber-restrictive and prohibitive gun laws, all I can say is the people have had the right, without restriction, to vote for representives who will support them and the right to leave and live free elsewhere.

    The defense rests.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    When it comes to states such as IL, NJ, and NY with uber-restrictive and prohibitive gun laws, all I can say is the people have had the right, without restriction, to vote for representives who will support them and the right to leave and live free elsewhere.

    The defense rests.
    +1
    I moved from a more restrictive state (Maryland) to Texas. The last thing I want is any interference from Maryland politicians with my new life here in Texas. If we allow the federal government to interfere with states rights that is exactly what will happen. If you are not happy with the laws in your community, change them. If the majority of people living there are happy with those laws, either live with them or leave.
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    1. Have a CCW and it is good in every city and state and territory of the US.

    No. Absolutely not. I do not want the Federal Government involved in ANYWAY with regulating aspects of carry. What they control or regulate, they screw up and restrict.

    2. Instead of restricting the mag capacity of a handgun, restrict extended magazines.

    No. Absolutely not. Again, the Federal Government shouldn't be involved at all in this. A 33 round Glock magazine is very beneficial in a home defense situation. Plus, it is just as safe or dangerous as 3, 10 round mags. The evil lies in the individuals heart and mind not in an inanimate object like a magazine that holds a certain number of rounds.

    3. Castle Docrine and Stand your ground should be streamlined.

    This is something that each state should decide for itself. I would rather have to figure out what the particular laws are in each state I may visit than have the Federal Government involved in this matter as well. They would screw it up, then restrict it. Keep them out of it completely.
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    Sounds like you may want to spend the time writing your representatives and calling them.

    Asking for MORE government involvement is going backwards to the solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    When it comes to states such as IL, NJ, and NY with uber-restrictive and prohibitive gun laws, all I can say is the people have had the right, without restriction, to vote for representives who will support them and the right to leave and live free elsewhere.

    The defense rests.
    What you say is correct, but their highly restrictive laws affect many others besides their own residents. So, it is more than just a local matter. Try figuring out how to lawfully and safely (no potential legal troubles) take any legal firearm from PA to VT or from MN to PA and you quickly see the mess that excessive reliance on the individual states has created.

    And again, its not just about guns. It is everything. Drive from one state to another and though you think it is perfectly fine and easy, there are plenty of potential surprises. In one state you must have your headlights on if your windshield wipers are on. In another you must display your registration in a particular manner from the visor of your vehicle. Record a phone conversation in the wrong state and you could end up in big trouble though doing so might be fine in your own.

    We are killing our businesses and our economy with a hodgepodge of laws and there are no winners except the major law firms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass63 View Post
    States' Rights shouldn't ever trump the Bill of Rights.
    This is part of the BOR "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." States rights come from the BOR, how could they trump it?

    Now if you are talking about certain rights granted to the people in other amendments in the BOR, I agree they are superior in claim to state (or federal) legislation seeking to curtail them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsrule View Post
    1. Have a CCW and it is good in every city and state and territory of the US.

    NO - I believe in States Rights - the Federal govt. should not be telling my state what their laws must allow.

    2. Instead of restricting the mag capacity of a handgun, restrict extended magazines.

    NO - punish criminals - not people who are law abiding ( IMHO you need to stop listening to NY politicians )

    3. Castle Docrine and Stand your ground should be streamlined.

    As I write this - my state (PA) is working on passing a modified castle doctrine law - we will fix our problems without Federal Interference.

    Good luck with your state.
    +1

    As the SCOTUS being the way that NJ and other states with very restrictive laws will get relief...you have the ballot box...

    Even a relatively pro-gun Justice has said that states can regulate "reasonably"... you need to decide what is reasonable in your state, and vote in politicians who will follow that guidance...

    Otherwise, keep the federal government out of gun laws...
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