March 24th, 2011 08:55 AM
Did he handle the Situation Correctly?? (Sorry it's soo long)
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A pool company employee and two animal rights protesters face summary charges as a result of a post-protest confrontation on a Warminster street in February that ended after the pool employee pulled a gun on the protesters.
Mark Olsen, 62, of Dublin, who was video taped pulling a gun on the protesters, faces disorderly conduct and careless driving charges, according to court records. Steve Hindi, 56, and Janet Enoch, 49, both of Elburn, Ill., are charged with disorderly conduct for a physical offense, and harassment for following in a public place. Hindi is additionally charged with harassment by subjecting another to physical contact and careless driving.The charges stem from an altercation on a Warminster street on Feb. 22 that was captured on video by Enoch.
Hindi and Enoch, members of Showing Animals Respect and Kindness, had been protesting outside Carlson Pools on York Road until about 1 p.m.
They said that morning a man later identified as Olsen, Carlson Pools' operations manager, had driven at them in a threatening manner and they had attempted to obtain video of his license plate. As they left, Olsen drove up to them again, they said, and the two groups exchanged words. Hindi and Enoch said they followed Olsen to get his license plate to complain to police.
After a brief vehicle chase recorded on video, Olsen pulled to the side of the road and approached the two protesters.
The video depicts:
A verbal and then physical altercation obscured by Olsen's hand on Enoch's camera. When Olsen's hand comes away from the camera, he states that Hindi hit him and draws a handgun. Olsen orders Hindi to the ground but instead gets back in his SUV and leaves.
Hindi and Enoch said Olsen grabbed her and then Hindi pushed Olsen away from Enoch to defend her. Olsen told police that he reached toward the camera, which Enoch pushed against his hand, and then Hindi punched him in the face.
Police seized Hindi's laptop and camera after the altercation, officials said. It's unclear if investigators also seized what appeared to be a cell phone that someone in Olsen's vehicle was using to record the physical altercation from a different angle.
District Attorney David Heckler declined to comment on the case; Warminster Police have repeated declined to comment on the matter.
Hindi and Enoch said they look forward to fighting the charges against them and are outraged that Olsen wasn't the target of criminal charges.
The newspaper was unsuccessful in reaching Olsen at his Dublin home.
Charges for everyone in post-pigeon protest confrontation - phillyBurbs.com : Courier Times: carlson pools, s.h.a.r.k., police, warminster, district attorney
Just wanted to get your guys/girls thoughts on this? I'm not sure if I would have reacted the same way...then again if someone was following me with a camera anything can happen right?
March 24th, 2011 09:01 AM
No he did not-he incited the situation by approaching them. If he was being harrassed, call the police. Plus, there has got to be more about this than we know. Why were animal rights protesters at a pool store? I suspect this was not round 1.
I'd rather be lucky than good any day
There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.
Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.
March 24th, 2011 09:06 AM
Thats what I thought too...apparently its been an ongoing thing about shooting pigeons...they said the video came from PAshame.com and when I went to that website it was all about pigeon shooting and cruelty of that sorts...I agree he shoulda called the cops. I don't think pulling out your gun, telling the guy to "get on the ground" and then asking his associate if he saw him getting hit...knowing the whole thing was being taped was the way to go about it...but of all the charges he didn't receive one weapons charge...
March 24th, 2011 09:48 AM
Would the reasonable man have been in fear for his life at the moment he skinned that smoke wagon?
March 24th, 2011 10:13 AM
No he did not. I have the following thoughts.
1. There is more to this than we know.
2. Call 911 and/or drive to the cop shop with the morons following
3. Pool guy escalated the situation several times by:
a. getting out of his vehicle
b. putting hands on the camera/camerwoman
c. drawing his gun when the best that he can say is the guy shoved him. That was not clear on the tape because he was pushing the camera.
Pool guy is lucky to not be charged with assault and weapons charges. PETA types are lucky to not be charged with harassment and possibly assault. Responding cops, if any, probably are tired of the PETA types so cut the pool guy a break. Would be interesting to know the rest of the story.
Last edited by ksholder; March 24th, 2011 at 11:23 AM.
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March 24th, 2011 10:48 AM
Sounds like it was handled poorly by all participants.
March 24th, 2011 10:50 AM
yea...I've been trying all morning to see what was missing to try to get a handle on this...def don't think pulling out a gun and telling the guy to get on the ground right after he shoved his wife was a smart idea..I'll keep looking
March 24th, 2011 11:15 AM
Originally Posted by ksholder
Following in car seemed like some form of harassment by the camera driver.
Pool guy walks to them from his car and closes "safe space" instead of, say, taking up a tactical position behind the hood of his car on passenger side and yelling whatever he wants at them, calling 911 etc (presenting no weapon).
Off camera, something may have happened between the men. Cannot comment, no data.
Lady had the right to film.
Pool guy seemed to commit some form of minor assault shoving camera with hand.
Other guy "defended" camera lady. That seemed fine in context at that moment in the time-line.
Here are Texas Laws:
Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;
(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c);
(3) if the actor consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other;
(4) if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:
(A) the actor abandons the encounter, or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely abandon the encounter; and
(B) the other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the actor;
Here are the problems I see gun guy having in Texas:
Did gun guy bring this situation on himself if witness (es) exist to corroborate couples claim that he came at them with his SUV at the beginning of this event timeline.
Gun guy goes out of his way to close space and get in the face of couple's driver. This seems to ride the edge of bringing it on himself here in Texas. I can see argument either way. Tactically, gun guy was stupid going to the other car.
I cannot tell if gun guy touches couples guy first or second. If first, then he provokes without doubt.
If gun guy touches second, in his own defense, I still think he provoked by walking over to the couples car. I give a big benefit of doubt and continue playing assuming he got 'hit' first.
If gun guy claims he was hit at this point and gun guy defends himself with his hands at this point in the timeline, why did he feel the need to go to gun when the lady - not a physical threat with a camera in her hand - came over. He was pissed he was getting filmed and went over the top. In Texas, he has no duty to retreat. But if hands on was good the first time and gun guy is fine physically - which he was - gun guy brought it on himself when he reached for the camera and couples guy legally "defended" his wife at that point in the timeline.
My Opinion: I think its a clear "FAIL" on gun guy if it occurred in Texas.
Thx for posting this
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
- Frederic Bastiat
March 24th, 2011 11:30 AM
When something smells like crap, I do not intentionally step in it.
"I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".
March 24th, 2011 11:37 AM
To answer the OPs Question, yes he handled it wrong. Brady bunch should have fun with this. This guy is an idiot...
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
March 24th, 2011 08:10 PM
Whole lota stupid goin' on.
March 24th, 2011 09:27 PM
No he didn't handle it right. Not even close to right.
I would say that everyone in that video is a class A idiot. The two in the van need to be locked up for harassment and the idiot in the SUV needs to be locked up for assault and possibly aggravated assault.
I will say I noticed he didn't have a round chambered in his XD. But that still doesn't mean he isn't an idiot.
March 24th, 2011 09:30 PM
Every group has a few dumbasses ono of ours just got outed
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
March 25th, 2011 10:20 AM
Agreed, based on the little that was shared of what transpired, both parties acted like complete tools/morons. The harrassers used the videocamera to intimidate, but pulling a gun in a non-life threatening situation was done for the purposes of intimidation. And it was all recorded for posterity. Priceless.
March 25th, 2011 08:07 PM
Everyone here needed a 'chill pill'..now it's gonna' cost them all, and rightly so.IMHO
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