Defensive Carry banner

Practice Practice Practice

2K views 21 replies 19 participants last post by  jdsumner 
#1 ·
I just read a somewhat disturbing article in Guns and Weapons For Law Enforcement. Short version: In the hands of police, who in theory are professionally trained and practice the use of their weapons, in actual shootouts, at very close ranges (less than 21 feet) the "hit rate" by the officers was 20%. Or, if you will, they missed their target 80% of the time. All of the discussion we have about "stopping power" and the best/worst calibers for defense kind of pale in light of this stat. What's the concept. Five good quick misses with a great caliber from a high capacity magazine don't make up for one hit. Practice, practice, practice.
 
#3 ·
Absolutely true. I heard one combat instructor say that if you are shooting a six inch group at 21 feet at the range, and if you actually find yourself having to use the same weapon in a real defense situation, multiply group size by at least three. Thus, a six inch group, (obviously not so great, but see what most are shooting the next time you are at the range) turns into a 18 inch group, if we can even use the word group. A foot and a half spread will in most cases be a clear miss.
 
#5 ·
+1.

Another factor is how you train. Most people (including police) just shoot for good groups from a normal stance. In a gunfight people are flopping and moving while shooting. It's a whole new level of shooting that can't really be practiced unless you are using paint/simunition.
 
#10 ·
This says it all, until you've been on the wrong end of a gun fight you have not experienced stress!
 
#8 ·
Shooting at a stationary target that dont move or shoot back is a whole lot different than shooting at someone that wants you dead.

I have seen many great shooters do not so well when doing force on force training with Simunitions.

When the rules go out the window and you are all of a sudden shooting to "survive", itty bitty groups all of a sudden become worthless.

Its not the practice that makes you good...its HOW you practice that makes the difference.
 
#9 ·
That why we practice FOF....It makes all the difference.
 
#11 ·
It reminds me of something Mike Tyson said about his opponents when he was at the height of his game, "Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face." When the crap hits the fan, stuff is happening in split seconds, people are on the move, and shooting back...it's something that is difficult to truly train for. Instincts drive actions and reactions at that point.
 
#12 ·
Most youngeer officers are not gun people. That is they did grow up hunting or shooting .22 etc. Couple that with the attitude of " if they want me learn something they would send/pay me to do it.

As others have said here, force on force shows what works and what does not. Suarez international has been proving this for several years now.
 
#14 ·
According to what I have seen on FBI and other reports the police shoot the wrong person 11% of the time including other officers and bystanders.

On the other hand we silly civilians only shoot the wrong person 2% of the time while keeping in mind the public shoots way more people than the police do.

Part of the bad numbers for the police can be attributed to the officer showing up on seen and not being sure who the bad guy is. The citizen rarely has that to deal with.

Oh don’t forget that one out of four firings on seen is unintentional.
 
#16 ·
An old friend, deceased, and my initial trainer, observed LEO's somethings came into prepare to qualify and their guns were rusted shut.

Gaius. Good choice. Why?
 
#17 ·
Have to remember that police are often the targets of attacks which has a BIG impact on their performance. You wear the uniform, and everyone knows you're armed, so you're instantly a target. Criminals have the luxury of deciding when and who they want to go after, the police have to wait until things are already bad. CCW holders are somewhat in between, but are not obvious targets...and as others have pointed out, are probably more likely to have CHOSEN the option of carrying rather than having it issued to them.
 
#18 ·
Gaius: The “Peripatetic Professor”

Gaius was born, probably in Rome, somewhere circa 110 A.D. It is likely that he studied law in the Sabinian school under Aburnius Valero, and possibly Tuscianus.12 From 130 until his death, Gaius taught Roman law students the law. Teaching first at a Sabinian school in Rome, Gaius, the “peripatetic professor” with republican leanings, appears to have left the capital when the emperor Hadrian began his efforts to control the legal profession.13 He traveled and temporarily settled in the provincial towns of Dyrrachium, then Troas, finally settling in Beirut, perhaps associating himself with what was to become the famous law school of Beirut.14 He appears to have been familiar with Socratic “irony,” that feigned ignorance coupled with pointed questions calculated to educe truth from the student. Indeed, he may have been the first to use the “Socratic method” in teaching law,15 beating Harvard’s Professor Langdell, who introduced the Socratic Method in the 1870s in Harvard from whence it spread around the United States by more than a millennium and a half.
 
#19 ·
It is about practice and concentration / focus. You need to be able to focus on what you are doing sort of a tunnel vision, not that you do not pay attention to your surroundings, but keeping distractions out. Recently i shot at a USPSA match when my head was really not there and my scores were terrible. Readiness is all.
 
#20 ·
Thats why we train the way are bodies will react under critical stress.
This is the key point. If you look back at the history of police shooting incidents, you really see how lax training led to many of the fatalities involved. I read an article a few years back where researchers had noticed that a large number of officers killed in the line of duty had empty shell casings in their hands (while carrying a revolver). This was attributed to the fact that while training they emptied casings into their hand instead of letting them drop to the ground.

The smallest detail can really make a difference in a stressful situation.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top