Chicago false facts?

This is a discussion on Chicago false facts? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This from the MCRGO web site article on proposal to allow concealed carry in Illinois. State Sen Dan Kotowski (D-Park Ridge) asserted that concealed carry ...

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Thread: Chicago false facts?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Chicago false facts?

    This from the MCRGO web site article on proposal to allow concealed carry in Illinois.

    State Sen Dan Kotowski (D-Park Ridge) asserted that concealed carry permit holders have killed 11 police officers and more than 200 others in recent years.

    Full article;

    Ill. Assn. of Chiefs of Police Support Legalizing Concealed Carry Proposal



    I wonder where they are getting this? Is this a national figure and what time span are they considering recent? 50 years?

    Anyone have stats on LEO shootings by CCW holders?

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    I read the same article. I couldnt find any info on CCW holders shooting police. I think the numbers are wrong....

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    Member Array GrandBob's Avatar
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    It wouldn't be the first time that something from Chicago was false...

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    Member Array PatAz's Avatar
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    Never let an obvious lie interfer with politics in Chicago

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    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    i attended an academic seminar by John Lott last Spring. As I recall, based on his research findings, there are no cases, whatsoever of a CC permit holder ever killing a cop. More so, i do not believe that there were hardly any cases of a CCW holder committing the murder of anyone while legally carrying. Am I suggesting that the Representative is lying? Well, yes. However, if Prof Lott is reading this forum, could you please comment?

    i would suspect that if the statement were true, the Illinois Chiefs Association would not have come out in favor of the legislation.
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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I'm sorry guys but come on, it's Chicago. Have you ever heard or read a politician from Chicago tell the truth on ANYTHING? Much less on the subject of guns? It's not even debatable.
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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    chicago = traded guys like al capone for guys like the daleys..... no difference

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    Member Array katmandoo122's Avatar
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    He got it here

    I'm not saying it's accuration and yes, the VPC is as dirty and biased as the come. But as for where he got it, here:

    VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers


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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katmandoo122 View Post
    I'm not saying it's accuration and yes, the VPC is as dirty and biased as the come. But as for where he got it, here:

    VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers



    WOW 297 people!! in 15 years!! In the time it took me to post this, alcohol, cigarettes, and automobiles just took as many lives LOL

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    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katmandoo122 View Post
    I'm not saying it's accuration and yes, the VPC is as dirty and biased as the come. But as for where he got it, here:

    VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers


    They seem to have documentation of individual cases to back their claims.
    A quick scan quickly reveals cases of mental illness, self-defense, etc inflating the number. Many of the cases are still pending trial. They even included that nut job in AZ last fall as being "lawfully concealed" because AZ doesn't require a permit!
    It could take months to research the actual facts of each case to find which ones are accurate, and which ones have been edited to support their bias.
    My first question about each case would be whether the person was actually a legitimate CCW holder. Second would be to weed out the self defense cases, followed by the negligent discharge cases.
    Why must liberals insist on lies and wild exaggeration to push their agenda?

  12. #11
    Member Array KimBobTex's Avatar
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    I have no doubt that CCW'ers have killed (not murdered) hundreds nationally over the last 15 years.

    Likewise, home owners have killed hundreds nationally over the last 15 years.

    Also, business owners, managers, & employees have killed hundreds nationally over the last 15 years.

    It's called justified self-defense shootingsof BG's by GG's. You know CCW self-defense shootings are being included in their stats, a minor detail they conveniently ommit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis128 View Post
    They seem to have documentation of individual cases to back their claims.
    A quick scan quickly reveals cases of mental illness, self-defense, etc inflating the number. Many of the cases are still pending trial. They even included that nut job in AZ last fall as being "lawfully concealed" because AZ doesn't require a permit!
    It could take months to research the actual facts of each case to find which ones are accurate, and which ones have been edited to support their bias.
    My first question about each case would be whether the person was actually a legitimate CCW holder. Second would be to weed out the self defense cases, followed by the negligent discharge cases.
    Why must liberals insist on lies and wild exaggeration to push their agenda?
    Emphasis added.

    Because without the lies and twisted, misrepresented data there would be absolutely no case whatsoever against lawfully armed citizens.

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    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    People, this is nothing new, before the right to carry was returned starting in Florida, the stats from hand gun control and such groups used all shootings as murders including police shooting bad guys.

    They have always used false figures for everything, all lib’s do as far as I can tell.

    Which brings me to another thought, why anyone would vote for one of them.

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    Statistically, even if true, the numbers are so small as to be meaningless. Civilians killed far more people (cops included) with cars, so should we not allow driver's licenses??? No, instead, we support teaching Driver Education in public schools!

    The "antis" always pull out the tiny numbers of children or innocents who have died at the hands of (fill in the blank), then moan "...if it saves just ONE life". Yeah, well... horse hockey. Five-gallon pails kill too many infants and backyard pools and bicycles kill too many kids. Face it, people die from ice cubes, boiling water for spaghetti, and untied shoe laces, none of which was "designed to kill," but you could dig out statistics that would alarm the uninformed and make it seem reasonable to outlaw them all.

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    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    I beleive they also include suicide as murder by firearm. Heck if a guy committed suicide by leaving a car running in the garage and he had a firearm in the car, they would count it.

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