First time CCing out of state

First time CCing out of state

This is a discussion on First time CCing out of state within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've had my CPL for a few months now, but had never carried outside the state...until this past weekend. My wife and I were travelling ...

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Thread: First time CCing out of state

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    New Member Array delta1679's Avatar
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    First time CCing out of state

    I've had my CPL for a few months now, but had never carried outside the state...until this past weekend. My wife and I were travelling to Ohio and Kentucky, and I made sure to do my research on related laws for both states. Ironically, I didn't spend much time carrying in Ohio as I expected due to the difference in laws between that state and Michigan. We spent the majority of our time at the Duke Energy Center (Cincinnati) which, from what I understand, has a Class-D liquor license preventing me from carrying concealed. Despite the fact that I wasn't consuming alcohol, the restaurants we dined at fell into the same situation. I was also surprised to find quite a few of the businesses we went into, including most gas stations, had signs posted preventing weapons on their property. The example photo is from the Saks Fifth Avenue store connected to the Hyatt hotel in Cincinnati. All in all, my firearm spent more time locked in my car or in my hotel room than on me. Anyway, just thought I'd share in case someone else is planning a trip to or through Ohio.



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    A lot of the City of Cincinnati is very unfriendly to gun owners. That, and many other reasons, are why I tend not to go into downtown too much. Outside the city it is much better, and the signs are much more scarce.

    And we are working on fixing the restaurant situation.
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    Member Array ooxlinusxoo's Avatar
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    That sign is CLEARLY about revolvers.
    I think of that all the time when I walk past a Wachovia bank. They have that same image, minus the text.
    No wheelguns!

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    Soon traveling to different states will be old hat to you. You will learn how to adapt and over come. Some places just suck and you can't avoid them.
    Semper Fi

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooxlinusxoo View Post
    That sign is CLEARLY about revolvers.
    I think of that all the time when I walk past a Wachovia bank. They have that same image, minus the text.
    No wheelguns!

    Not the way it works in Ohio, unfortunately. And the signs carry the weight of law there.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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    The downside to travel.
    I am glad I live where I do. Our boarder states are good for the most part.

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    With a Delaware CCDW permit I can't even get out of State without locking the gun up in the COM safe. MD, PA, & NJ do not honor DE permit. Luckily I have a LEOSA permit which they have to honor. If we keep the pressure on, we may be able to reduce the places we can't carry, don't give up the fight.
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    New Member Array delta1679's Avatar
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    It's good to know that the situation is different outside the downtown area. I did encounter one gas station about 30 miles north of Dayton where I ran into the "no revolvers" sign. Seems as if I just lucked out.

    I can see many more trips through Ohio in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delta1679 View Post
    It's good to know that the situation is different outside the downtown area. I did encounter one gas station about 30 miles north of Dayton where I ran into the "no revolvers" sign. Seems as if I just lucked out.

    I can see many more trips through Ohio in the future.
    The big cities tend to be the most un-friendly for those of us who carry. But a lot of the time when I am in Ohio, I can go about my business without running into any no-guns signs. Aside from the current restaurant rules, which hopefully will get changed this year. UDF's are the only gas stations I know of that are regularly posted.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    Not the way it works in Ohio, unfortunately. And the signs carry the weight of law there.
    I didn't know that the signs in Ohio carry the weight of law and that it is so unfriendly to gun owners there. Sorry to hear that. As we currently live in Indiana I guess we won't be making too many trips to Ohio since we do not spend money in states that deny or curtail our right of self defense. Too bad too, we had wanted to go to Kings Island and Cedar Point. Also wanted to see the Air Force Museum. but I'm sure we can find vacation spots that are much more friendly to gun owners and carriers.
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    indianapolis is very gun friendly. Also, from the way that sign looks, it must also be illegal to use commas in the state of ohio.
    TN_Mike and ppkheat like this.
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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    indianapolis is very gun friendly. Also, from the way that sign looks, it must also be illegal to use commas in the state of ohio.
    The grammar police.........You didn't capitalize the "I" in Indianapolis in your post. Just sayin...
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta1679 View Post
    I've had my CPL for a few months now, but had never carried outside the state...until this past weekend. My wife and I were travelling to Ohio and Kentucky, and I made sure to do my research on related laws for both states. Ironically, I didn't spend much time carrying in Ohio as I expected due to the difference in laws between that state and Michigan. We spent the majority of our time at the Duke Energy Center (Cincinnati) which, from what I understand, has a Class-D liquor license preventing me from carrying concealed. Despite the fact that I wasn't consuming alcohol, the restaurants we dined at fell into the same situation. I was also surprised to find quite a few of the businesses we went into, including most gas stations, had signs posted preventing weapons on their property. The example photo is from the Saks Fifth Avenue store connected to the Hyatt hotel in Cincinnati. All in all, my firearm spent more time locked in my car or in my hotel room than on me. Anyway, just thought I'd share in case someone else is planning a trip to or through Ohio.

    Research the laws where your going, do what they say, and be glad you can even have the gun on the trip. The last thing you want on a trip is to be arrested on a firearms charge.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    I didn't know that the signs in Ohio carry the weight of law and that it is so unfriendly to gun owners there. Sorry to hear that. As we currently live in Indiana I guess we won't be making too many trips to Ohio since we do not spend money in states that deny or curtail our right of self defense. Too bad too, we had wanted to go to Kings Island and Cedar Point. Also wanted to see the Air Force Museum. but I'm sure we can find vacation spots that are much more friendly to gun owners and carriers.
    The signs carry the weight of the law in Ohio, although there is no standard sign. Here is what the Attorney General's handbook for CC says:
    The law does not say precisely what language must be on the sign. At a minimum, signs must be conspicuous and inform people that firearms and/or concealed handguns are prohibited. However, the law suggests that the prohibited locations post a sign that substantially says the following:
    Unless otherwise authorized by law, pursuant to the Ohio Revised Code,no person shall knowingly possess, have under the person’s control,convey, or attempt to convey a deadly handgun or dangerous ordnance onto these premises.
    Ohio concealed carry is definitely still a work in progress. I'm not sure about Cedar point, but Kings Island is posted, and has metal detectors going in, although the guys that run them are usually pretty dumb. I worked there for a few summers, and it has lost its luster to me, but when I was a kid it was great for summer days.

    As far as the Air Force Museum, it is located on Wright Patterson AFB, so there is no carry there, regardless of Ohio law, because it is a federal military installation. I would still suggest that is well worth a trip, I like it better than the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum. A lot of really neat stuff to do for a day or two their.

    Also, not sure what state's permit you are rolling on right now, but, even though Indiana recognizes Ohio permits, Ohio does not recognize Indiana permits. It has to do with Ohio will not enter a reciprocity agreement with a state that does not have an equivalent training requirement. Indiana IIRC recognizes a permit from any state.

    it must also be illegal to use commas in the state of ohio
    I used several, including one just now.
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    Yeah, the Ohio signs carry the weight of law and have no standardization whatsoever. One theater just north of Cincinnati (still in greater Cincinnati) has no carry signs posted that are clear, like the ones in this post, but much, much smaller and posted on every other door at lower than knee level. You can't read the text while standing and opening the door, but they still carry the force of law. I have sent the following to my Ohio legislators - other Ohioans who want to send it can do the same.

    Dear Rep. INSERT REPS NAME:

    I have a suggestion for changing sign requirements for Ohio's concealed carry laws. This pertains to proper signage disallowing concealed handgun license (“CHL”) holders from carrying on a private property.

    I want to start off by saying that I am not arguing private property owners should not be able to post their premises prohibiting the carrying of a firearm. If they want to take that stance, that is their right. I do, however, feel that a certain standard for the signage posting the premises should be enacted, at least for commercial and governmental properties. Several states have signage standards that, in various manners, require that such signs are posted so as to be clearly visible and legible from a reasonable distance.

    The attached pictures were taken at the Springdale 18 movie theater complex. They show:

    1. The signage for the theater.
    2. A wide shot of the theater with the entry doors in the center.
    3. A shot of all the doors from about 25” away. Note that not all doors have signs on them.
    4. A shot of a single door with the posting signage on it from about 6 feet away.
    5. A close up of the signage on the lower panel of the door from about 4 feet away.
    6. A close up of the gun posting portion of the sign from about a foot away.

    I include these photos because they graphically demonstrate the need for a better signage standard for Ohio. Items that need to be addressed are:

    1. Signs are not placed on every door.
    2. Signs are not legible from a reasonable distance. In fact, given that the gun posting is about 18” from the ground, it is not legible when you are opening the door. You may be able to make out the circle with the slash, but the sign is so far from the line of sight that it is more likely than not that you will miss it.
    3. Signs that do not have an opaque background are not adequate to draw attention to the sign and are easily missed.

    My understanding of the Ohio law is that any sign that a property owner puts up posting no guns allowed has the weight of law. Although the Attorney General’s web site has a proposed sign with suggested, but not mandatory, language, Ohio’s law does not state what language and/or graphics must be on the sign. Further, the sign must be “conspicuous”, a term that could be defined differently by reasonable people. Failure to have a standard to ensure that such signs are placed in a manner that they are clearly visible by the reasonable man places Ohio’s CHL holders in jeopardy of violating the law without even knowing it.

    Let’s look at the changes I believe should be made to the law.

    1. Adopt the Model Concealed Carry sign published on the Attorney General’s web site Model Concealed Carry Sign as the standard sign for Ohio. Signs that do not contain this graphic and language, in at least black on a white background (but the color on the web site is preferable) will not carry the weight of law.
    2. Letters on signs must be at least 3/8” tall and in either red or black ink.
    3. Signs must have an opaque white background.
    4. Signs must contain the graphic of the gun in a slashed circle.
    5. Signs must be placed between 4 and 7 feet from the ground.
    6. Signs must be placed on every entrance door used by the public.

    I realize that this may seem pedantic, however, the problem with Ohio’s current law is that there are no real definable standards for gun posting signs. The pictures from the Springdale 18 are just one case in point. Other signs I have seen are small printed text that state “No guns are allowed on this property”. These signs, and others like them, make it a guessing game for CHL holders when they enter any property. I have even seen signs that are placed to only be visible when exiting the property. Having a standard sign that is clearly visible and posted in a location that makes it hard to miss on every entry door will allow Ohio’s CHL holders to comply with not only the law, but also the owner of the property’s wishes.

    I appreciate your help in this matter. Please feel free to contact me to discuss this issue further.

    Sincerely,
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