Neighbor's Dangerous Dog - Page 2

Neighbor's Dangerous Dog

This is a discussion on Neighbor's Dangerous Dog within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by enidpd804 Prayers for the child. One thing somewhat off topic: Don't expect one round to stop a determined vicious dog. That's the ...

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  1. #16
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    Lightbulb One Shot DOGGIE Stop?

    Quote Originally Posted by enidpd804
    Prayers for the child. One thing somewhat off topic: Don't expect one round to stop a determined vicious dog.
    That's the truth! I had a close buddie from high school that became a cop in our hometown. One day a German Sheppherd attacked him on duty and it took almost a full mag of 9mm to put it down. The guys on his shift teased him without mercy for years. So did I. Mostly I teased him about having to use a 9mm.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array AnimalKracker's Avatar
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    I've raised German Sheperds, and Doberman Pinchers. There is no excuse for haveing a mean biting dog. There is a huge difference in a protectve dog and a mean dog looking for trouble. The owner should have taken care of this dog a long time ago. Unless he's told to bite, or protecting me or mine from a direct threat. He better not bite. My son learned to walk hanging on to the Dobes collar or tail. I was raised up with German Shepherds. There are lots of people that think a dog has to be mean to protect. Look for intelligence, temperment,and willingness to please. Not willingness to bite first. I hope your son come through this OK, not afraid of every dog he sees. Go to Wally World and get a wrist rocket,and a bag of marbles or steel balls for it. Those hit like a .45.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
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    Theres alot of irresponsability by the dogs' owners. There is just no excuse for it. The dog woulda been dead already if I was in your shoes due to my son... but thats me and I'm not in your shoes.
    I have raised malamutes and rotts to be very social and friendly to all people that I come accross, especially kids. I won't put up with such. These animals know instinctively when to do their job. Some breeds have been known to be kinda mental, but I think its the breeding of the animal along with the owners not training it accordingly.
    My new pup Penny Pearl (boxer/pit mix) is gonna be big and shes a total sweetheart. I have a responsability to see to it that she stays that way. Thats because I care....
    May you and yours stay well.....

  4. #19
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    Sorry to hear about your son and your dog, Here in Idaho you can shoot a dog just for being on your property and a dog that violent if I was the owner, I would already have it put down for attacking your son. I have done this in the past with a dog I've had. IMHO if I saw that dog loose it would be dead and let the owner come after me, because I'd be protecting my family.
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ti Carry
    That was my exact question with this also. I am sorry to hear about your son, dog bites can be brutal. We all have an obligation to protect our own and a dog that is attacking me or my family in my yard, street or anywhere else for that matter will be put down right there and then! I will deal with the rest after protecting my family.


    Ti.
    After the first incident, the owners kept the dog on the fenced back part of their property...did not know the boys were playing with the dog.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott
    Shooting at, near or from an occupied dwelling, shooting in the streets and or discharge of a firearm within city limits. Those would all apply if it was not a justified case of self defense. Also keep in mind that since your dog is also property you are not allowed to use deadly force to defend it either. So their dog attacking your dog isn't enough. There would also likely be a civil proceeding on their part after you shot their dog.
    I live out where farm country starts and the sub-divisions end, but am within 300 ft of a road. Behind my house is a natural berm (and trees) between my house and houses around me.

    The dog has posed as a clear and present threat....has demonstrated his willingness to bite, maim, injure....IF this dog shows up on my property when my family (I also have a 3 yr old) is out playing (say, while I am mowing the lawn), he gets one free "get away" as I am gathering the family into the house. IF he follows or shows any agression towards my family...don't you think I have the justification to drop him? (I have already told the owners to keep the dog secure and off of our property)

    We will continue to harass Barney Fife Animal Control until they document and do something...but in regards to shooting with city limits....what about all of these defensive shootings? Is the person who defended himself charged with discharge of a gun within city limits? This is exactly what this is...a defensive shooting.

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    I went through this with a friend whose dog was attacked and nearly
    killed while on a chain by a large german Shepard other guy refused to keep the dog tied and the attacks continued and the dog
    was shot and wounded and drag itself home and died.Shooter was cited paid fine and paid $600 to replace dog.Moral of story if you going to shoot,shoot to kill!Talk to police and a lawyer.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    Best thing for you to do is to keep your family away from that dog. And that even means having your son find a new friend, because shooting a dog can sometimes cause you more trouble than if you shot a human being.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  9. #24
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    I would not hesitate in taking care of the threat. When I was 4 years old (early 60's) I came within 1/4" of having the site in right eye taken away because of a neighbors dog. I ended up with a face full of stitches and nothing ever happened to the dog or the dogs owner. And to make matters worse I was in our own yard.

  10. #25
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    20% pepper spray fogger (Same that is used for Bear defense) Sue the owners for the prior attacks, Fence in your yard, Use primitive weapons like a bat or spear if the dog appears on your property again in a aggressive manner, Install a outside surveillance camera to document the encroachment of the dog on the property.
    Need Help with a Glock, Hi-Point Carbine, Kel-Tec P-32, P3-AT or Sub-2000, Colt .45acp, M-16/AR-15 or AK-47 type weapon? L.E.O, Glock L/E Certified Armorer & Instructor, NRA L/E Pistol & Shotgun Inst, Colt Defense L/E Amorer, American Gun Smithing Association, Home Grown Hi-Point & Kel-Tec fixer,

  11. #26
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    I believe I had the qualifier in if it is not determined to be a justified defensive shooting or something to that extent. Just letting you know that if you shoot the dog and they rule that it wasn't justified self defense they will pile on with the other charges in addition to the destruction of property. It just raises the stakes of the potential criminal charges is all. I'm not aware that many VA counties have statutes about animal abuse. In fact that is an area of great concern to the animal rights groups. They have been trying to get the VA legislature to change that statewide, but so far without success.

    If the dog is attacking you or your family and you believe you need to shoot it to stop it, then do so. You get to articulate that the dog was attacking and that is why you shot it. You tell the responding officer that the dog attacked and you shot to stop the threat. The responding deputy can opt to bring a charge against you then or they can present the information to the Common Wealth's Atty for your county and they can make the decision. If the facts bear out that the dog was attacking when you shot it then you should be clear from the criminal prosecution under any statutes as you were acting in legitimate self-defense. The dog's owner may try something in civil court. There is no way of knowing that.

    My comment about the state ordering the destruction of the dog was made with an eye towards a civil proceeding (your lawsuit against the owner). I do not know for a fact that a civil court can order the destruction of the dog, I would ask your lawyer. A criminal court can make this order, but I don't know what evidence is required, again your lawyer may be able to advise on this as well.

    Just an aside if the dog does go after your family and you are there tell them to stop or move away slowly as you distract the dog to you. You should yell at the dog and run away from it and your family. A dog's natural instinct is to give chase. If it doesn't you may need to hit it to get its attention. Once the dog is chasing you, then you need to deal with it. You should probably let your family know not to run from this dog but just to move away at a normal pace or slowly so they don't trigger the chase instinct. Just in case you aren't around if it should happen again.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229
    After the first incident, the owners kept the dog on the fenced back part of their property...did not know the boys were playing with the dog.
    Well, then the question is how did the kids get to the dog? If anything I think the only thing you could/should go after is lack of child supervision as they did take the steps to keep the dog away.
    Yeah the dog might be on the temperametal side but you do not know what has transpired to make the dog do what he did. Also did he do it playfully without knowing his strength or did he attack on purpose? I think that if that dog meant harm things would have went further.

    Now, before anyone flames me, I was attacked by a dog when I was a kid. I "invaded" the dogs comfort zone (got too close to him when readjusting the tent stakes when he was resting next to my tent). I was about 12 or so, and with one clamp the dog put his teeth almost all the way around my head: I have couple small scars on my forehead, couple on my cheek and one on my chin. He clamped, and opened and let me go. Was the dog at fault? Maybe. Was I at fault? Yes. I have approached a dog without a care in the world without thinking of the consequences (hey I was 12). Was the owner at fault? Hmmm not sure: he did say that petting him is fine with him being present but no effort to pet him without him there should be made. He probably should have had him muzzled or something so on second thought, yeah, he was. Should the animal have been destroyed? nope as it was a "warning" shot on his part and if he was vicious and meant business, I would not be able to type any of this. So same thing I think applies in your case: there were efforts made to keep the animal away, the animal (the way I read from your description) did not mean harm and the kids went where they should't have. Kind of like sticking your finger onto a hot electric plate after climbing a mini fence meant to keep the kid away.

    Now getting back to the other part, I think that if that dog does escape containment again and goes onto your property, you might be well within your rights to deal with it as appropriate (depending on circumstances of course). While it's sad to see an animal go down (and keep in mind that whatever action you take, you will probably be living next to those neighbours for a while longer) safety of family does take precedence.

    In regards to the costs: what did your neighbour say? I think that their homeowners policy should cover any accidents occuring on their property? In CA I had to fill out a paper about my dog so that they would insure my property (certain insurance companies will underwrite the policies if certain breeds are involved). So now should something occur on my property, or rather in this scenario should my dog bite someone, my homeowners insurance company will take care of it for me.

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    I am not a dog fan. Way to many people around here get Pit Bulls, Rotweilliers, and other dogs that can be vicious and are not responsible owners. They chain the dog to a tree in the backyard or let them run wild. It seems like every week on the news another kid is mauled by a pitbull that has gotten loose.

    I have a 2 1/2 year old son and I constantly worry about him being attacked in our yard. We live in a middle class cookie cutter subdivision. The other night a lady walked by with a Pit Bull that weighed more than she did. Thankfully the dog was on a leash but she was having trouble controlling it. I scooped my son up and went inside. All I could think was what if that dog got loose and charged us? (He would have been shot, more than once since I carry a 9mm.)

    No one on here will convince me that these dogs don't have a vicious streak. A close friend of mine had a very well trained Pit Bull that attacked his mother. I not going to say that people shouldn't be allowed to own this type of animal because I don't appreciate it when someone tells me I shouldn't be allowed to own guns. But with owning guns comes a tremendous amount of responsiblity. The same applies to these animals. If I shoot someone accidently, am I not legally responsible? If my dog attacks someone am I not legally responsible?

    The owner of the dog that attacked your son should be held legally liable and should have to pay your son's medical bills. Animal control should quarrantine the dog and then terminate it's sorry life.
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; July 23rd, 2006 at 02:39 PM.
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  14. #29
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    The problem with most of the vicious dogs are that the people that have bred them, don't have any idea of why they are breeding them except that they are the same kind of dogs, think that mean is a good protective trait, have no idea how to socialize them and train them.

  15. #30
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    Lightbulb Strict Liability

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
    If my dog attacks someone am I not legally responsible? The owner of the dog that attacked your son should be held legally liable and should have to pay your son's medical bills.
    Actually under common law and most state law (including Florida) there are just some things that are so inherently dangerous that they are held to be ALWAYS accountable to the law, like handling dynamite or having a dog. So a DOG BITE makes you 100% liable in all situations....even where a kid cuts thru your yard on the way home from school and the dog is in the correct yard....the way to immunize yourself is to put up a large BEWARE OF THE DOG sign. This is also why you might get a burglar launching a successful lawsuit because he broke in and your dog did his job and BIT him! But you might not be held liable for also then shooting the miserable POS.

    This is one reason we have Newfoundland Dogs...water RESCUE is in their genes and blood. I've had my dog launch herself into pools to "rescue" kids who were screaming....in a fun way....but the pup only hears a high pitched scream and goes into action. She swims out and circles the kid until they grab her tail and she pulls them to the shallows.

    Such powerful swimmers, our breeder took one of hers (she has NINE of these dogs each weighing an average 145 pounds) to a lake in Texas for the first time. There were these drunken high schoolers on a huge raft (airplane inner tube?) drinking beer. Maybe six of them. So the dog launches out and swims powerfully to them. Not wanting them to get scared she yells and they ask what to do? So she says grab her TAIL. That dog...towed the entire raft full of kids to shore.

    We have two of them. They have never growled at anybody. I carry a gun when we walk to protect them from OTHER dogs or people.

    OTOH, I don't think I'd want to be the guy who harms my WIFE in front of them. Never mess with "mommy!" Still if they did bite a bad guy in defense of family, I don't think the "castle doctrine" covers that and we might have to deal with it....
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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