Curious about permitless carry

This is a discussion on Curious about permitless carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I understand and appreciate the ideology behind permitless carry but I'm kind of curious how it works in those states. While I live in a ...

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Thread: Curious about permitless carry

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    Member Array brobar's Avatar
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    Curious about permitless carry

    I understand and appreciate the ideology behind permitless carry but I'm kind of curious how it works in those states. While I live in a state where you have to jump through hoops and go through the motions to prove your worthiness to legally carry (background check, 3-month wait, picture taken, finger-printing, fees, etc...) I've just always looked at it as a necessary evil to become a card carrying member of the "I'm one of the good guys" club. While I haven't yet (knock on wood) encountered any traffic stops or LEO interaction while carrying I've always appreciated the fact that I wouldn't need to explain motive for carrying simply because that little laminated piece of plastic says I legally can. That doesn't mean or prove I'm not a bad guy but we've all said that a bad guy who doesn't care about gun laws probably isn't going to go through the process, jump through hoops, pay the fees, etc... to become legal to carry so that little permit was one more small thing in my favor that could help separate me from them.

    Once a state goes permitless for carry... what do you have to seperate you from them (them being the bad guys or those who illegally carried)? In a permitless state do LEO generally treat most encounters with those who have a firearm as they are guilty until otherwise proven innocent? Not that they couldn't do that anyways in a state that requires permits to carry but it just seems that you would have one less thing to separate you from a bg.

    What would Ayoob's video of a traffic stop look like in a permitless state?

    I'm not against permitless carry... actually I'm all for the idea behind it. I'm just not for being lumped in with the common gun-toting bad guy but I'm sure the ideology behind it all outweighs that for many or most.

    Just curious what you guys thought. Does a permit really have any benefit at all in giving you favor and/or separation from gun-toting bad guys since many like to claim that most gun-toting bad guys wouldn't go through what we all go through to exercise our right? Having a permit doesn't mean that you are a good guy just like having a gun doesn't mean that you are a bad guy but I just kind of liked the fact that that little piece of plastic does a lot more talking and gives a lot better/clear explanation than I would care to verbally give myself provided I ever needed to explain myself.

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    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
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    You are known by your deeds not by the silly card in your wallet. That's what separates the GG from the BG's. Permits are just control, big Brother steels your freedom then sells it back to you.
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    You're right, I often wondered about that myself. I concealed carried for many years without any problems or permit. I don't really know what made me get a CCW, maybe i thought it would make me feel better just incase i got caught or had to use my gun.
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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macantic View Post
    Your right,I often wondered about that myself.I concealed carried for many years without any problems or permit.I don't really know what made me get a CCW,maybe i thought it would make me feel better just incase i got caught or had to use my gun.
    You almost sound apologetic about your choice to get a permit and comply with the law. Don't feel that way....compliance with laws is what separates the GGs from the BGs......
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    To my knowledge none of the states who have adopted constitutional carry have done away with their permit system (VT has never had a permit system, it has always been carry without a permit. Residents of VT must obtain a non-resident permit from another state for reciprocity) . It is still available for those who want it. Even if I lived in a state with constitutional carry I would get a permit, if for nothing more than reciprocity with other states.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    You almost sound apologetic about your choice to get a permit and comply with the law. Don't feel that way....compliance with laws is what separates the GGs from the BGs......
    well, that presupposes just laws... after all, by that reasoning, George Washington was a bad guy for not upholding King George. Not trying to be a wise guy or disrespectful. I have a permit and believe in the rule of law. But not everything's so black and white. Law's neither truth nor goodness. It's just law.
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    I’m in Arizona and permits are now optional. However, I plan on keeping my silly card everywhere I go. It does provide an extra margin of convenience when traveling to reciprocal States and I personally like having it in my wallet.
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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by red13 View Post
    well, that presupposes just laws... after all, by that reasoning, George Washington was a bad guy for not upholding King George. Not trying to be a wise guy or disrespectful. I have a permit and believe in the rule of law. But not everything's so black and white. Law's neither truth nor goodness. It's just law.
    Most laws are intended to keep dunderheads from doing something stupid. Sitting here right now I can't think of many things that I would do differently if there wasn't a law against it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    You almost sound apologetic about your choice to get a permit and comply with the law. Don't feel that way....compliance with laws is what separates the GGs from the BGs......
    ^^^ That.^^^ Now, as in before, nothing stopped the BGs from carrying illegally.
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    People put too much stock in permits, licsenses, certificates and the like. If the worst possible thing happens, and you must use your firearm in self-defense, that little card isn't going to do a thing for you. Either it was a rightous shoot, or it wasn't. All the permits in the world serve only one purpose, and that is to limit our freedoms.

    Until there is a day that I can visit every State in the Union without a permit, I will keep mine even if there is Constituional carry in my home State. On that day though, I will gladly cut up, burn and scatter the ashes of that permit to the four winds.
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    Here in AZ it's really no big deal. Every LEO I know assumes everyone is always armed, but also assumes everyone is law-abiding until proven otherwise. In reality most cops I know size up a person pretty quickly, and if you look like trouble and are armed they are more likely to be cautious with you. Dress decently, be respectful, and you'll have no problem.

    The CCW is useful here in AZ for reciprocity, for being allowed to carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, for purchasing firearms with less hassle, and now for being allowed to carry on college and university campus public areas. So it has its advantages. Mine is up for renewal soon and I will be renewing it for the above reasons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    People put too much stock in permits, licsenses, certificates and the like. If the worst possible thing happens, and you must use your firearm in self-defense, that little card isn't going to do a thing for you. Either it was a rightous shoot, or it wasn't. All the permits in the world serve only one purpose, and that is to limit our freedoms.
    While I am not disagreeing with the general thought behind this, I do think it makes a big difference that you were legally carrying to begin with. Carrying illegally and having a good shoot still leaves you to deal with doing something illegal. And that's best avoided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 74 View Post
    While I am not disagreeing with the general thought behind this, I do think it makes a big difference that you were legally carrying to begin with. Carrying illegally and having a good shoot still leaves you to deal with doing something illegal. And that's best avoided.
    Agreed. I was writing under the assumption of Constitutional carry as opposed to having a permit. I was not advocating carrying contrary to current laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    Agreed. I was writing under the assumption of Constitutional carry as opposed to having a permit. I was not advocating carrying contrary to current laws.
    Kind of an oxymoron... Constitutional Carry being contrary to current law... Don'tcha think?

    I've got a permit... and I resent it every single day.

    How much are they charging to restore your Freedom of Speech permit?

    Maybe I'm just imagining it, but I certainly believe I'm feeling a new wind blowing... Wisconsin will get CCW soon... The idea is being considered in the last holdout... Illinios... and Arizona is now Constitutional Carry.

    My hope is that in a decade or so adherence to the Second Amendment to the Bill of Rights will be more common than uncommon in these United States?
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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    The older I get, the less my Permit is a badge of honor and more of a thorn in my side. It irritates me to no end that I need to prove to The State that I should be ALLOWED to exercise a friggin right enumerated in the US Constitution! That is not right. If you ask me, we, the good guys, should need no permit. But those who have been proven to be the bad guys should need a permit to walk around in society. Perhaps some type of mark that distinguishes them.

    Free men should not need a permit to exercise a right.
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