62 year old man nearly beaten to death

This is a discussion on 62 year old man nearly beaten to death within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sad story, hope they find the guy that did it. Fight outside Scottsdale club leaves man in hospital | Phoenix News | Arizona News | ...

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Thread: 62 year old man nearly beaten to death

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    62 year old man nearly beaten to death


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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Guy needs to go to jail for a real long time!
    Hiram25
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    Member Array KimberUltra's Avatar
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    Another reason why everyone should carry. If a gun owner was near by that wouldn't have gone down the same way. The BG would have been taken care of.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimberUltra View Post
    Another reason why everyone should carry. If a gun owner was near by that wouldn't have gone down the same way. The BG would have been taken care of.
    And what would a private citizen with a gun do in this circumstance? People , the gun does not give you the experience or authority to jump in here in save the day. There was no mention of any weapon on the part of the suspect, so I do not think it is good to suggest the immediate introduction of a firearm in this situation is good. Too much of that mindset going on anymore, and its going to end up biting us.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Member Array KimberUltra's Avatar
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    If I'm standing outside a bar or store and see someone being beaten ten feet from me, I would try and stop him. There's a good chance he would turn on me giving me every right to believe my life was in danger. I never said I'd shoot him.

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    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    My gut feeling about the attacker,from the small photo,is 'punk'. Sucker punchers are the most gut-less people.Nothing is for sure,but I bet a few of us who are over 50 might have changed this young mans life.If you know what I mean.
    Pain is the best teacher,but nobody wants to go to his class.


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    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    And what would a private citizen with a gun do in this circumstance? People , the gun does not give you the experience or authority to jump in here in save the day. There was no mention of any weapon on the part of the suspect, so I do not think it is good to suggest the immediate introduction of a firearm in this situation is good. Too much of that mindset going on anymore, and its going to end up biting us.
    Late middle age couple on street - man gets clobbered by MUCH YOUNGER GUY , down for the count.

    If I were there I would certainly attempt to DETAIN the guy.
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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimberUltra View Post
    If I'm standing outside a bar or store and see someone being beaten ten feet from me, I would try and stop him. There's a good chance he would turn on me giving me every right to believe my life was in danger. I never said I'd shoot him.
    The man was sucker punched and pushed down. By the time someone could react the damage is already done. While someone MAY be able to detain the BG. It won't change the outcome of what happened.

    In circumstances like this, I'd be a good witness. I have no idea what started the altercation, and will not risk my safety in a complete unknown situation.
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I never said not to help the person in peril. The implication in the responding post said "if a gun owner was nearby that wouldnt have gone down the same way", which to me means that he meant that introducing a firearm into the mix would have set things in a different direction. Thats a good way to get your self into trouble by escalating the use of force. My statement is to imply that the introduction of a firearm into the situation by a private citizen who has no legal authority to do so is stupid at best. Until there is a clear and present danger to yourself, such as a weapon or at least the idea that you will be harmed due to a big size disadvantage, you had better keep your gun holstered and do something else.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quite a few stabbings and shootings have happened here locally outside Nightclubs like these. This fellow could have got worse.

    Can't imagine why a 62 year old man was hanging out at one of these joints that caters to young people. They are often so loud and crowded, and play music that I just cannot stand. Personally, I stay away from them. There is no one my age there.

    If a young guy is hitting on his girlfriend, that also means that he is dating way below his own age. While that may work for Hugh Hefner, it seldom works out well for other folks.

    This man certainly did not deserve to be beaten up. But one can avoid these sort of risks by avoiding these types of downtown nightclubs. A small neighborhood tavern that caters to all ages is a much safe bet.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I will bet money the Hispanic punk is an Illegal alien,they injure or kill somebody down here and they run back across the border and hide out,if they do happen to get caught then there is an immigration process and the US has to agree not to pursue a death sentence.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Quite a few stabbings and shootings have happened here locally outside Nightclubs like these. This fellow could have got worse.

    Can't imagine why a 62 year old man was hanging out at one of these joints that caters to young people. They are often so loud and crowded, and play music that I just cannot stand. Personally, I stay away from them. There is no one my age there.

    If a young guy is hitting on his girlfriend, that also means that he is dating way below his own age. While that may work for Hugh Hefner, it seldom works out well for other folks.

    This man certainly did not deserve to be beaten up. But one can avoid these sort of risks by avoiding these types of downtown nightclubs. A small neighborhood tavern that caters to all ages is a much safe bet.
    Although I strongly second the bolded part, I must say the victim stirred up a lot of "risk ingredients" for one outing:

    1. stupid place ("night club")
    2. stupid time (late at night)
    3. stupid people
    4. alcohol

    If you're going to go to the trouble of carrying a gun for your personal safety, you should also start by avoiding other risky combinations as well.

    He apparently had this loser escorted out of the club by management earlier in the evening. I've had that done before as well when some geeked-up chucklehead was making advances on my daughter in the Bahamas. I was a middle-aged guy with a big group and a large bar tab. But, when I did it, I also left the bar with my group, so we could leave under the watchful eye of management.

    This guy made a huge tactical error by assuming that once he had the dip stick escorted out, he could hang around partying with his "fiancee".

    Pro tip: If you are ever involved in ANY type of altercation at a place that serves alcohol, it's time to call it a night. Right then. In fact, I take it one step further. If I so much as witness even a minor altercation at any establishment, I take it as a cue to leave the area immediately.
    mr.stuart and MotorCityGun like this.

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    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    I pass an area every day - now one campus area out of 2 campuses of a very large University. There are still some remnants of what was a vibrant college area around the first, city, campus. (The other, with more students is in burbs outside of the city.) The city campus area has gone to the dogs. Regular shootings etc. So year and a half ago, some university students attacked another student outside of bar who they did know but who they got furious about; this other student, a graduate student; the attackers were undergraduates. He was beaten and then kicked repeatedly by all 4 who had boots on. By the time help arrived he was paralyzed for life with a broken neck and back. The student attackers were charged with very serious violent crimes by the outraged DA and convicted.

    If I had been driving buy and saw someone being violently assaulted that way, I would get a very powerful Surefire Combat flashlight, jump out of the car and from a distance hit them with the beam - which is blinding and scream "POLICE! Freeze! Drop to the ground with your arms out and legs spread!" while hitting 911. But, if one had come near me to attack or they had kept on attacking - they were drunk after all and might - I would then go over, pull my gun and yell "Back, Desist. Or I fire!" If they stopped killing the guy and didn't approach me. That would be it. If they still didn't stop or made to attack me I'd shoot. It was clear to many watching that they were killing this guy. And without jumping to the gun first, if it had to be the last of attempts to save the guy - or save me if they turned on me - I would use it at the end trying other things first: i couldn't watch someone being kicked to death by 4 others. And since he already had a broken back/neck waiting on a squad car is not an option, one more kick could be the killing one. And if I got charged - or even convicted - with a serious crime - which I doubt given the circumstances, I would still be satisfied with my involvement. There are time, it's you or nobody. This would have been one of those times. I would have no regrets, and if there was punishment for me at the end of the day, I could accept it calmly because I could accept myself and with thankfulness that I had risen to the occasion and been "that one person who is marked by the fates to stop a killing.

    There are times, when non-involvement is not an option. On the other hand, you have to differentiate what those are from some weird private agenda to be Batman or something like that and interfere where it's not necessary. But i f it's time, it's time. You or no one.

  15. #14
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post

    If I had been driving buy and saw someone being violently assaulted that way, I would get a very powerful Surefire Combat flashlight, jump out of the car and from a distance hit them with the beam - which is blinding and scream "POLICE! Freeze! Drop to the ground with your arms out and legs spread!" while hitting 911. But, if one had come near me to attack or they had kept on attacking - they were drunk after all and might - I would then go over, pull my gun and yell "Back, Desist. Or I fire!" If they stopped killing the guy and didn't approach me. That would be it. If they still didn't stop or made to attack me I'd shoot.
    Well, since you're a LEO, the situation is different, and this is is a good way to handle it. If you're not and you play the scenario out this way, well..... you have issues.

  16. #15
    Member Array shyguy122577's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    I pass an area every day - now one campus area out of 2 campuses of a very large University. There are still some remnants of what was a vibrant college area around the first, city, campus. (The other, with more students is in burbs outside of the city.) The city campus area has gone to the dogs. Regular shootings etc. So year and a half ago, some university students attacked another student outside of bar who they did know but who they got furious about; this other student, a graduate student; the attackers were undergraduates. He was beaten and then kicked repeatedly by all 4 who had boots on. By the time help arrived he was paralyzed for life with a broken neck and back. The student attackers were charged with very serious violent crimes by the outraged DA and convicted.

    If I had been driving buy and saw someone being violently assaulted that way, I would get a very powerful Surefire Combat flashlight, jump out of the car and from a distance hit them with the beam - which is blinding and scream "POLICE! Freeze! Drop to the ground with your arms out and legs spread!" while hitting 911. But, if one had come near me to attack or they had kept on attacking - they were drunk after all and might - I would then go over, pull my gun and yell "Back, Desist. Or I fire!" If they stopped killing the guy and didn't approach me. That would be it. If they still didn't stop or made to attack me I'd shoot. It was clear to many watching that they were killing this guy. And without jumping to the gun first, if it had to be the last of attempts to save the guy - or save me if they turned on me - I would use it at the end trying other things first: i couldn't watch someone being kicked to death by 4 others. And since he already had a broken back/neck waiting on a squad car is not an option, one more kick could be the killing one. And if I got charged - or even convicted - with a serious crime - which I doubt given the circumstances, I would still be satisfied with my involvement. There are time, it's you or nobody. This would have been one of those times. I would have no regrets, and if there was punishment for me at the end of the day, I could accept it calmly because I could accept myself and with thankfulness that I had risen to the occasion and been "that one person who is marked by the fates to stop a killing.

    There are times, when non-involvement is not an option. On the other hand, you have to differentiate what those are from some weird private agenda to be Batman or something like that and interfere where it's not necessary. But i f it's time, it's time. You or no one.
    Are you a LEO?
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