April 19th, 2011 01:16 PM
Things that made me go, Humm.
1. Last week I went to the IRS office to pick up some forms. They're on a rack inside the door, you don't need to speak to anyone. I was not armed.
As I approached the rack, a security guard said, "Do you have any weapons on you?". "Why are you asking me?" I countered.
"Do you have anything on your person that could be used as a weapon? A pocketknife, maybe?"
Once again, I said I didn't understand why he singled me out.
"If you don't like it, got out, you can complain to Homeland Security."
I did see where he harassed lots of people coming in.
Can he legally do that? He wasn't from Homeland Security, he was a rent-a-cop.
After I left I wish I would have said, "Officer, am I being detained? I'd like to go about my business." Next time.
2. I was leaving a major sporting event last Sunday. I wanted to avoid traffic so I took a back road. Police had a roadblock and were stopping everyone.
A state trouper leaned in my window and asked if I had a driver's license.
(I'm sure he was sniffing for alcohol) I said, "Yes, I do."
He wanted to see it. I showed him and I was on my way.
But again, I felt there was no probable cause to pull me over.
What's the country becoming? A police state?
April 19th, 2011 03:01 PM
#1. I would have simply said "No", and been on my way. The guard was doing his job. Simply doing what he gets paid to do is not harassment. He may be a contract security guard, but in those circumstances they work under the authority of the client. In your case, the federal government. Federal offices have very strict regulations regarding weapons.
#2. Numerous court rulings have said that checkpoints do not require probable cause. Public road, public place, no Constitutional right to drive an automobile, etc.
If you go through life looking for a fight, I'm sure you will find one.
U.S. Navy Veteran '65-'69
Retired Police Detective '71 - '01
NRA Life Member / SAF Member
U.S. Constitution (c) 1791, All Rights Reserved.
April 19th, 2011 03:30 PM
Indeed. It is posted. That is where it should have ended. I've been to that place many years, and there has never been a guard asking questions.
In your case, the federal government. Federal offices have very strict regulations regarding weapons.
And exactly what is his job?
The guard was doing his job.
Should I expect to be frisked by mall security "just doing their job"?
What's stupid is that if I had a weapon, and I had intended to do harm, would I give it up because he asked? No. Waste of tax dollars.
Should we expect guards at the post office too?
I see you are a retired LEO.
Did that cloud your answer?
I did say "No", then I was mad at myself. What if next time the guard wants to pat me down? Where does "He's just doing his job" end?
In the case of the roadblock, I didn't protest, but I don't think police can stop everyone for no reason. There was no reason.
I don't want a police state. More and more, I feel it's "Us against them."
April 19th, 2011 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by Pioneer
April 19th, 2011 03:46 PM
When you get a drivers license you agree to certain terms when you sign the document and accept it, sad but true. As for the federal building? Their house, their rules... save yourself the headache and download the forms in PDF format.
April 19th, 2011 07:28 PM
when he asked if you had any weapons, you should have said "yeah, my fists"
April 19th, 2011 07:56 PM
The way freedom works is that he is free to ask you any question he feels like asking you. You are free to, for the most part, ignore him.
As to the checkpoint, the courts have ruled on this one already. They CAN stop you.
It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.
April 19th, 2011 08:05 PM
If the world consisted of sane, responsible people, (or even a majority of) we wouldn't need stuff like this. We probably wouldn't need weapons either (except for hunting and other fun.)
Since the above is not true, we need LEO's and security folks of other types. They perform there jobs based on the rules that society hands them. If you don't like the rules, change them. Please don't blame the LEO's.
Anybody can get scared, but you must absolutely not let that affect your behavior. Cowardice kills. -Jeff Cooper
April 19th, 2011 08:06 PM
I would have politely asked..."hard weapons or soft" and watched the quizzical look on his face.
Then I would have innocently offered up a statement..."well officer I don't have any HARD weapons on me, but there's not much I can do about the others..."
When he asked me to explain myself...eventually, if he was smart enough to inquire about it... I would have said " my HK USP is in the truck along with my Saiga 12 SBS and my shorty AR but the truck is locked, so its OK... but since my hands and feet are legally registered as deadly weapons, I am required by law to inform you that yes, I am carrying weapons. How would you like me to proceed?"
I would have watched him very closely for a few seconds and waited for a response. With a smirk on my face, I would have started the exit out.
When life gives you lemons...make lemonade.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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April 19th, 2011 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by atctimmy
April 19th, 2011 09:17 PM
Learn to say a few lines of ANYTHING in French and just keep saying it over and over again like you don't speak English. They'll get tired of messing with you and repeating themselves and move on to hassling someone else.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.
April 19th, 2011 09:30 PM
Guard doing whatever he was told to do. Who cares. Do you have any weapons? Ans. NO. Guard, "Next"
You can't bring guns and other stuff into Federal bldgs--- you should have been aware of that. It is posted somewhere. Turn around and leave if you have any. Ooops, Is this the IRS? I was looking for ICE. Bye.
As for the roadblock--- notwithstanding what the courts have said, I hate these and do believe them to be fundamentally wrong. Constitutional in the sense that they have some blessing from the court, but certainly not in the spirit of 4A. Cooperate and go on your way.
See comment by participant who wrote that if you go through life looking for trouble you'll find it.
ANd yes, we are becoming a police state, thanks to the failed war on drugs, the excessive problem with unlawful aliens and the inevitable backlash to that problem, and thanks to UBL and a few others. This is why I so resent the common proposals I see on the net for "papers please" "drug tests" "random stops" "airport searches" and many other things. Glad I'm old and won't be around to see what will happens to the young people. You don't protect freedom by restricting it, and that includes restricting access to medicines and drugs (so there).
April 19th, 2011 09:42 PM
i actually appreciate the road blocks. i don't want drunks behind the wheel. too many sad stories about drunks killing people.
There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.
April 19th, 2011 10:58 PM
guns and more has a valid point with the guard, unless you did something stupid that attracted his attention to you, he had no right to question you as to what you had on your person. Regardless of the policy. As a guard myself I am not allowed to just walk up to random people and ask are you armed, regardless of the rules of the site i am on
"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."
April 19th, 2011 11:00 PM
I agree 100% plus is seems that the guard was asking other people so no one was singled out. I think we need to RESPECT the fact that he has a job to do and not give him a hard time about it. Unless he was being an honest jerk, there is no reason to be offended for a simple question that just needed a simple answer. same for the police, as some people drink at sporting events and that many people drinking at one time ups the chances of an accident happening. i would have no problem with a cop asking for my license at a check point in an effort to get someone that maybe serious impaired off the road.
Originally Posted by Pioneer
ok, I am done now
“Love is much like a wild rose, beautiful and calm, but willing to draw blood in its defense.”
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