This is a discussion on Female Persuasion within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is another how to convince the wife/girlfriend to get a gun thread. I've read a bunch of these before but I'm looking to see ...
April 21st, 2011 02:04 PM
This is another how to convince the wife/girlfriend to get a gun thread. I've read a bunch of these before but I'm looking to see if anyone has any new input.
Read below for an incident that I thought would convince her.
I know I can't force her to get a gun let alone carry one. And if she decides to buy one I must let her choose what she likes best. In my stable I have from full size .45 to subcompact LCP and even a soft shooting .22 to get her some practice and less scare factor as well as to determine what size and trigger style suit her best. I have triggers of all varieties; SA, DAO, SA/DA etc. She has gone shooting with me twice and likes the .22, is totally scared of my full size .45and loathes my LCP.
Here is an extra part to the story that I would hope might convince her to take her protection into her own hands and not rely on LEOs completely. That is not meant to be a knock on LEOs, they do what they can.
Just last week her neighborhood had an incident (a nice neighborhood too, bad things happen anywhere) in which at least 20 LEO surrounded a home across the street from her. Everything from patrol cops to a limited SWAT team. The sniper actually took up position on her front porch! And when all was done after hours of "standoff", they didn't get the guy and we have no clue if anything has been resolved let alone why the guy was wanted.
She doesn't want to get a gun and I don't want to push her too much but I've tried a bit. I asked her what she's going to do if a fugitive like that decides to break in and hide from LEOs in her place. Her only answer is to call the cops but we know that will be too little too late. Last year she had to call the police and it took them 45 minutes to respond! She could have been beaten, raped or dead in that amount of time.
I gave her pepper spray last year which she basically laughed at. Then started to carry it for a while because she thought someone may come after her. Then, when the faux leather case broke, she stopped carrying it completely.
She calls me paranoid for carrying all the time and I am at a loss of what to do to convince her, or what it will take for her to convince herself!
I'm afraid it will be too late and she will be a victim before she ever decides to get a gun.
Any help or comments are appreciated.
April 21st, 2011 02:18 PM
Somewhere on this forum is a thread that has a phone call from a desperate woman calling 911 while someone is trying to break into her house, you hear her talking to police all the way up to the guy breaking into her bedroom and the phone goes dead, she follows shortly thereafter! If that does not convince her, try hypnosis!
You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
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April 21st, 2011 02:18 PM
There have been a number of good ideas in various related threads.
Sadly, I think you may have to accept that it may be a battle that you cannot win. Don't ask how I know.
"I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".
April 21st, 2011 02:25 PM
First thing to do is stop trying to do the training yourself. That's the biggest mistake made. Anytime you have a significant other that you want to learn or adopt a new mindset on self defense you need to find a good instructor and send them there.
When you try to train or educate a SO there are far too many other psychological traps coming into play. First, they do not want to look "stupid" or "silly" in your eyes. Not my words, words straight from the SO's I've had come for training. They want to look perfect in all they do in your eyes. When you add that stress they find it easier to just not do it. Second, when they have questions they are afraid of sounding stupid so the questions go unasked and therefore unanswered. This is the death spiral that leads to them shutting down on the whole idea.
I've seen this scenario play out over and over again and the things above are first hand accounts of what the students I've had experience and have relayed to me when asked about other training.
Even when you praise, they still feel as though they are not living up to your expectations.
If you really want to get her started on the right road, find someone who teaches the NRA Personal protection courses either the "Personal Protection In The Home" or "Personal Protection Outside The Home". That usually is a great catalyst to get them thinking on the self driven personal defense mindset.
Best of luck and don't give up, there is a combination of things that will come together and she'll surprise you one day!
April 21st, 2011 02:32 PM
Women are like house-cats.
They have to want to do something, because you can't make them do something they don't want to do.
You can try, but it will be annoying for them, and painful for you.
April 21st, 2011 02:33 PM
From your post, she is totally afraid of self defense.
If she is that way with pepper spray, there is no way she is going to carry/own a gun at this stage in her life.
You can come up with whatever "logical" stories you want that are all excellent examples and provide excellent reasons for her to get a gun.
None of them matter.
Her heart/feelings rule her head/logic.
I suggest that it may be easier for you to come to terms and accept her as she is than it is for you to "change her"
Attempting to change someone who strongly resists change, no matter how "good" the intention, leads quickly towards resentment.
Theres also something about a road somewhere paved with good intentions...........
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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
- Frederic Bastiat
April 21st, 2011 02:44 PM
Go at a different angle. I am lucky to have married a farm girl that hunts and has her own rifles and shotguns. She understands I work with dangerous people in a small community, and that our safety is in our hands first. She carries a Glock 26 everyday in a IWB rig. She is a scary good shot and loves to shoot.
Try getting her to take a class with you so that it is fun and she learns something. Make it so you are both students, and being "trained". Let her see how fun it can be learning, and make it something you can do together. Maybe start with simple self defense and work up to guns. Will be beneficial to you both and work her in to a mindset. Then work up to a gun class. Slow and steady wins the race the harder you push the more she will resent the idea and not do it
But like Guantes said, may just be a battle you cannot win.
Friends don't let friends be MALL NINJAS.
I am just as nice as anyone lets me be and can be just as mean as anyone makes me. - Quoted from Terryger, New member to our forum.
April 21st, 2011 02:44 PM
I hear ya guys. I'm probably barking up the wrong tree with her. the cat analogy is great MitchellCT.
I haven't tried to train her beyond going to the range twice. But it is a good idea that if she ever changes her mind, someone else aka a professional should take over the training.
I probably do just need to come to terms that I will never change her attitude. It just scares me that she will choose to not defend herself and possibly end up a victim and that may be the only thing that changes her mind.
More suggestions and comments are very appreciated. Even though I may be barking up the wrong tree.
April 21st, 2011 02:55 PM
Maybe something on this site will be of help.
Hoplophobia - firearm fear, gun fear, weapon fear, firearm phobia, gun phobia, weapon phobia, fear of firearms, fear of guns, fear of weapons, phobia of firearms, phobia of guns, phobia of weapons
April 21st, 2011 03:35 PM
I get the impression that this is a girlfriend/SO, and the two of you do not live together, if not disregard the following.
It is much easier to effect change from the inside than from the outside. If you are living together, married or not, all of your guns move in with you. Then for her to learn the operation of the primary house weapons is a safety issue. From there is can advance to "fun" shooting at the range, then on to more defense oriented concepts.
This is the approach that worked for me. Mine will never carry, but has the knowledge to operate the "house" guns. Whether she would use them if I am not there is hard to say. Sometimes, you take what you can get.
"I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".
April 21st, 2011 03:45 PM
It could also mean she doesn't like you trying to scare her into doing something she doesn't want to do.
How sure are you you want this 'fight'?
I mean, is she the one? Someone who, if they were in a car accident and lost the use of their legs, you'd change their adult diapers?
April 21st, 2011 03:50 PM
I can tell you how things have gone with my GF ...although I don't know if this will help, or anything. My GF knew I liked guns from our first "date". It wasn't really a date, but my friend and I took her and her roommate to shoot clays. I also brought my 17 to break them in before the shotgun (since there is no kick with the rimfire). We also shot a .40 cal. I went over all the safety rules first. Eased them into it, and they had a great time. At this point, I didn't even own a pistol, let alone carry one.
Some background: Once things worked out, and we had been dating for about a year, (and she had moved in with me, ha) I decided it was time for me to get a handgun. A few unfortunate things that happened to people that I knew pushed me over the edge. When I could afford it, I went and bought an XD .40. I took my GF along for the purchase. She was not against me owning guns, at all. Actually, when I took her to the range, she shot it like a natural. Zero misses. Since I was getting a small collection of firearms, I got a gun safe for our bedroom - plus I have roommates. I started reading up on the forums here, and really decided I wanted to carry full-time. I bought a crossbreed supertuck, because I knew I wouldn't carry the gun if it wasn't comfortable. I tried an uncle mikes holster in the meantime, and it was terrible, so I continued to not carry. Once I got my supertuck, I started carrying full-time.
My GF did not understand this. She had always been a supporter of my firearm habits. I went hunting, shooting, ect, as a hobby. However, she did not understand my wanting to carry a gun, on my person, all the time. I told her that you can't know when you might need it. A bad situation may arise, and you will wish you had it. What would the point be, if you left it at home? She shrugged, and let me keep doing what I was doing. She didn't really care, but she still didn't really get it. She just wasn't very comfortable with me carrying a gun everywhere we went. One thing was that she didn't know how extensively I had researched the state laws for CC. She assumed that I might break the law carrying a gun on me, all the time. So, I started spouting off some laws every now and then. We would be going shopping and I would say things like "I hear the local mall is posted for no firearms. Don't worry. Legally, I can't get in trouble, even if I ignore the signs. The worst that can happen is they can ask me to leave. Keep an eye out, because I would like to know before we go in, though." (they weren't btw)
So, she knows that I know the laws - since I would randomly voice things out. So getting into trouble with the law is off her worry list. ...Yet she still didn't get why I carried all the time. Well... she teaches a county away from where we live ...about a 30 min drive. One day, on the way home, a couple of thugs were making a drug deal on the side of the road (rural area, in the middle of nowhere). When she drove by them, and they saw that she saw them, they sped up to her and boxed her in. They didn't stop her, but could have. She got me on the phone at this time, freaked out. I told her that if they try to stop, she better ram them and or dodge and keep going (she is in an SUV). I told her to call 911, and get the tag number that she could see. At this point, they pulled off and left, she didn't have the plate #.
Well, when the dust settled after a few days, I asked her if she would have felt more comfortable if I were there with my gun. Of course she would have. She knows that I would have done whatever I had to if things had gone sour. I asked her that if she had a gun, and was put into a situation where she had to use it, would she have been too scared to use it? No way, she wished that she had a gun on her that day. So, I didn't pressure her, but now when I go to the local armory for ammo, I have them take out the J frame revolvers and have her handle them. Now, really without persuasion, she would love to have one. With a pink grip. When some cash comes through, I am going to take her to get one. At first, she thought she wasn't allowed to have a gun on school grounds. She didn't know that she could have one locked in her glovebox with a CCW if she was a teacher.
I understand that it took a scary situation to make her feel unsafe to want the firearm for personal protection. She has a better understanding that bad things can happen to anyone at anytime. It is better to be safe than sorry. I have always tried to just ease her into the notion of guns and make her feel comfortable around them - while understanding the safety measures that have to be taken. I feel that it has been the best approach for my GF. Anyways, take what you will from all of that. Not sure if it helps, or not.
April 21st, 2011 03:54 PM
have you tried Cornered Cat ?
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
April 21st, 2011 05:04 PM
I have read a lot on cornered cat myself but not sent her a link. I really don't pressure her too much. I bring up once in a while about having a gun, or joke about getting her a pink gun (which she always says "if I'm getting a gun, it sure as hell won't be pink").
Originally Posted by SIGguy229
We don't live together now, but did try that last year (long story short...we were'nt ready for that yet). She has known I like guns pretty much since day one and it was never an issue when she moved into my house. My guns were never on the "table," and she knew I wouldn't hear of getting rid of my guns.
She is one of the main reasons why I carry. I want to protect not only myself but loved ones of which she is included. Like I said, I don't pressure her but when stories in the news come up I'll make comments about what could have happened if someone with a CCW was there.
She knows that I'm not a Rambo type and will only deploy my weapon in a last case scenario, and that in most cases I'm not coming to the rescue like some wannabe LEO. I have demonstrated proper gun handling and safety around her. I lock up pistols when not in use etc. I follow CCW rules and will sometimes point out to her when we're out that I have to lock up my gun because its not permitted wherever we may be at the time.
I have taught her the basics of guns like the 4 rules and how to load/operate my pistols, but nothing on the tactical side of things. She's not ready for that. Nor would I train her like that. I'm not qualified to be a trainer and as I read on the cornered cat, I don't want to train her poorly or make her feel nervous about training. Because of her gun fears I think that she needs a neutral teacher.
She gets it, but doesn't. I'm a Realtor and am never in an open house or touring situation without being armed. Heck, I don't even watch TV on the couch without a weapon in my pocket. And she gets that I need to protect myself in my Realtor duties because we put ourselves in very vulnerable positions every time we show a home. About the only time I disarm is to go out for an occassional drink or to a non-permitted place, ie. hospital, government building etc.
I even helped convince her Dad (after he was threatened) to get a pistol and soon thereafter his CCW permit. Her brother also went along with her Dad and got a few pistols and a permit. She supports their choice to obtain their permits. Her Mom will shoot with those two but my girlfriend hasn't shot in a long time.
I think that she gets how a pistol can be needed. They just scare the heck out of her. I may just have to leave it alone or just take her plinking with my 22 only. No other "scary" guns.
April 21st, 2011 05:14 PM
If you can get her to the range and make it a fun day with that .22 it will eventually lead down the path you want her to travel. The keys are getting her to go, not pushing her to shoot what she doesn't want to shoot and most importantly that she has FUN !!!, HINT - REACTIVE TARGETS ARE FUN.
"There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
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