What exactly does "must inform officer" mean? - Page 3

What exactly does "must inform officer" mean?

This is a discussion on What exactly does "must inform officer" mean? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by gruntingfrog GOVERNMENT CODE**CHAPTER 411. DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OF THE STATE OF TEXAS I think this makes sense, the only official interaction ...

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Thread: What exactly does "must inform officer" mean?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    I think this makes sense, the only official interaction I have had since I got my CPL is to report someone going through my unlocked car during the night. They didn't get anything. Since I was on my own property and the officer did not ask for my ID I didn't inform, although I probably should have.
    I was actually expecting him to ask for the ID and since he didn't I didn't know when to bring it up.


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Please cite a source for that.

    Although, while 40 seconds does not seem like a long period of time... when engaged in conversation, 40 seconds can be considered to be pretty far into it.

    For example, if an officer approaches your vehicle and immediately asks "May I see your license and registration please?" A ccw holder who is required by law to inform LEO's should reply by saying, "Yes sir, and I am required to inform you that I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and I am doing so presently." That takes on average around 5 seconds for the entire exchange.

    If on the other hand, you start to engage the officer as to why he stopped you, and maybe saying other ancillary things like you weren't doing anything wrong or stuff like, "I didn't realize I was speeding", or "I didn't mean to run that stop sign", you quickly approach an extended conversation without fulfilling the requirements of the law, which is to immediately inform all LEO when engaged in official business.

    Yes, 40 seconds seems like a rather short period of time, and in my opinion an officer who is going to make an issue out of it, may seem to be kind of unreasonable. So, I would sure like you to post a source of you were heard that. I would like verification that a case like that went to court and the permit holder lost the case.

    Regardless, I'm glad I live in a state where I am not required to inform LEO I am carrying unless they ask me specifically if I'm carrying, or have any weapons.
    Yeah 40 seconds seems like a long time, but I am sure the person could have easily informed in that time. I suspect the guy was aruguing about being stopped and thought it more important to get his side of the story out there than to inform.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastercapt View Post
    Why is it dishonest?
    Because its written in a law. I am not for or against it, just stating the law.

    Now, heres a scenerio for you. You are stopped for traffic or a DUI roadblock.
    You are asked for the usual: license, regestration, andinsurance card.
    So you reach behind you to get out your billfold, and in the process you uncover the gun in your wasteband near your hand. The officers partner, who is young and new at being a cop, is watching you thru the passenger side window. What do you think will happen next?

    My billfold is kept in my left hip pocket and my firearm at 3 o'clock. I casually inform if stopped, and ask them how they want to handle it.
    I, too, have asked many LEOs if I should inform, and the answer is yes. Most Fl LEOs are cool about armed citizens.
    I keep my ID in a money clip in my weakside front pocket, as far from my gun as possible for this very reason. Even after informing a LEO, I don't want to have to reach to my right hip, past my gun to get my wallet and ID.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O View Post
    From the NC Dept. of Justice Firearms Website:
    To possess a concealed handgun in North Carolina, you must:
     Carry your permit and a valid form of identification with you at all times.
     Disclose the fact that you have a valid concealed handgun permit when you are approached or addressed by any law enforcement officer in North Carolina.

    So it seems that you must inform of the permit not the firearm - strange...

    Bobo
    Without looking at the actual statutes, simply relying on what you have posted, please refer to the bold section.

    To possess. If your not in possession of a concealed handgun you have no duty to inform of the permit. It seems pretty simple for a fellow from Texas.

    I think it would be good to look at the actual statutes especially if you're living in NC.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastercapt View Post
    Now, heres a scenerio for you. You are stopped for traffic or a DUI roadblock.
    You are asked for the usual: license, regestration, andinsurance card.
    So you reach behind you to get out your billfold, and in the process you uncover the gun in your wasteband near your hand.
    Easy. . . my wallet is in my pocket opposite my pistol. As soon as I started carrying, I moved my wallet to my left pocket, just for this reason. Actually, it wasn't for LEO contact, I didn't want to flash my pistol when I dig for my wallet at a cash register, but the same principle applies when digging for it when at a traffic stop.
    Last edited by livewire; May 3rd, 2011 at 01:51 PM. Reason: grammar

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCHornet View Post
    To me it is anytime a officer speaks directly to you when going about the normal duties of his job. Certainly if you are asked for ID you should tell him, and show the permit to him. The few times I have been pulled over both my front windows go down and my hands are clearly up on top of the steering wheel in plain sight. I will usually tell him I am carrying even before he says anything to me. I have been in his shoes many times and walking up on a unkown vehicle with dark tinted windows isn't the best feeling in the world. I simply treat him as I would want to be treated myself. This doesn't mean kissing his rear end, it means being respectful of the man/woman and the job they are paid to do. Simple as that.
    I would also add that you turn on your interior/dome lights if you can.

  7. #37
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    Idaho does not require you inform the officer. I concur with MotorCityGun, turn on the dome lights, keep both hands on the steering wheel and do as instructed.
    ...T. Ray

  8. #38
    Member Array merlin82plus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O View Post
    From the NC Dept. of Justice Firearms Website:
    To possess a concealed handgun in North Carolina, you must:
     Carry your permit and a valid form of identification with you at all times.
     Disclose the fact that you have a valid concealed handgun permit when you are approached or addressed by any law enforcement officer in North Carolina.

    So it seems that you must inform of the permit not the firearm - strange...

    Bobo
    Maybe strange... maybe not. You know the next question after informing the officer that you have a permit will be "are you armed" ?
    My hope is that most LEOs who hear that you have a permit to carry will assume that means you're a good guy.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    In NC, I have duty to inform upon official contact. It's not based on whether or not I am carrying a weapon. The fact I have a CHP invokes the requirement to inform. Whether or not I am armed is the second sentence out of my mouth.
    I hate to bring up this frankenthread....but I just had a similiar discussion with my parents who just took their NC permit class. The instructor told them the same thing--even if you aren't carrying, you're supposed to inform the officer. This doesn't make any sense, so I looked up the law myself. It states (from http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl...-415.11.html):
    14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
    (a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer.
    Thus, by the law itself--if you are carrying, you are required to disclose. The law does NOT state you must disclose regardless if you are NOT carrying. It appears to be a fallacy that because one has a permit in NC, you must advertise your permit status even if you aren't carrying. I'm not buying the "officer safety" line, because if you aren't armed, your permit isn't going to hurt him. VA cops don't seem to have a problem with non-disclosure (VA is not a "duty to inform state").

    So, that said, what's the deal with NC and fallacious duty to inform when you are not carrying?
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  10. #40
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldmtulsa View Post
    In Oklahoma, you must inform on your initial contact with any LEO.
    Not entirely true.
    It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop.
    Michael

  11. #41
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    In North Carolina your CCW permit number is the same as your DL, the one time I was stopped and unarmed the officer did ask if I was armed after running DL, after informing him I was not there was no further discussion as to CCW.
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  12. #42
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop.
    Just a thought. What if I do not realize that I am being detained? That I am free to go? I can see a problem if the permit holder and the officer were not on the same page here.

    Michael

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Just a thought. What if I do not realize that I am being detained? That I am free to go? I can see a problem if the permit holder and the officer were not on the same page here.

    Michael
    the cop stopped you and made contact, he probably asked you for ID, that is the point when you must inform him that you are carrying, if things get to a point where a cop is going to detain you and you hadn't informed them of your carrying he could just add that charge after possibly proning you out

  14. #44
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    Here is the regs for Louisiana:

    The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer. Anyone who fails to do so shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars. Additionally, when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:

    1.Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;

    2.Submit to a pat down;

    3.Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.

    FWIW, I called LSP a while back and asked them if it was necessary in any way to advise them about your permit though the permit holder was unarmed. The guy I talked to said no reason if you were unarmed, that it was essentially about "officer safety" issue's.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I believe there was a recent case in I think Michigan, where a citizen was charged with not immediately informing the officer during a traffic stop that he was carrying and had a permit. The interesting thing is that the time between the initial contact and the citizen telling the officer that he was legally carrying was...40 seconds. The court said that this was not "immediate" and the citizen lost in court.
    If that is the case where the LEO was screaming obscenities I can say I watched the dash cam video and it was way more than 40 seconds. The issue there was the cop did not approach the driver initially but a woman standing outside the car, then her pimp. He even searched the car climbing in the backseat all without talking to the driver. After yelling like a drill Sergent for a while he approached the driver who tried to tell him but was cut off by the cop, then finally was able to get it out and the cop went ballistic. I don't know how it all wound up but the cop was put on paid administrative leave.

    The consensus was the cop was out of line, BUT the driver should have just yelled it out while the cop was talking to the hooker. It was capital "W" Weird.

    I also find it odd to notify even when not carrying. Perhaps when he runs the license he will get all goosey and draw his gun, etc. That would make it a good reason to notify in any case.

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