What exactly does "must inform officer" mean? - Page 4

What exactly does "must inform officer" mean?

This is a discussion on What exactly does "must inform officer" mean? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sorry it took so long to get back to you. The case was an Indiana Supreme Court decision. See the following. RICHARD L. BARNES, STATE ...

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Thread: What exactly does "must inform officer" mean?

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    Sorry it took so long to get back to you. The case was an Indiana Supreme Court decision. See the following.


    RICHARD L. BARNES,
    STATE OF INDIANA,
    In the
Indiana Supreme Court
    _________________________________ No. 82S05-1007-CR-343
    Appellant (Defendant below),
    v.
    Appellee (Plaintiff below).
    Best way to win a gun fight? "That's easy, don't show up."
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    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything."
    -- Wyatt Earp


  2. #47
    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    OOPS...sent you the wrong case. Although this one is interesting. it says that no matter how outrageous and illegal a police officer's actions are, in the state of Indiana, a citizen NEVER has the right to resist an arrest. This would be true under this decision even if a drunken cop grabs you on the street, says you are under arrest, gives no reason, and starts beating you. You cannot resist. I will try and find the Michigan case. Sorry again but you might want to take a look at the Indiana decision.
    Best way to win a gun fight? "That's easy, don't show up."
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  3. #48
    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    Try this story...

    Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners
    Michigan - -(AmmoLand.com)- MCRGO Frequently Asked Questions:

    MCL 28.425f(3) states: “An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.” The penalty for a first offense includes a $100 fine, and a CPL suspension of up to six months.

    Q: If I get pulled over by the police while I am lawfully carrying a concealed pistol, is it considered sufficient notice to hand over my Concealed Pistol License (CPL) with my Driver’s License?

    A: Maybe not.

    In one recent case, the driver handed his CPL over to the officer who stopped him. He did this because he had been told by a reliable source (an experienced police officer from another jurisdiction) that it is considered dangerous to use the word “gun” when talking to an officer on the road side since officers yell, “Gun!” to one another when a dangerous person displays a firearm. The driver was ticketed for the non-disclosure. In subsequent trial, the dashboard video camera record showed that it was approximately 40 seconds after the officer arrived at the driver’s window that the driver verbally disclosed his concealed pistol.

    The court found that the simple act of handing over the CPL was not adequate disclosure and that the 40-second delay before verbally disclosing was not “immediate disclosure.”
    Best way to win a gun fight? "That's easy, don't show up."
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  4. #49
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Try this story...

    Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners
    Michigan - -(AmmoLand.com)- MCRGO Frequently Asked Questions:

    MCL 28.425f(3) states: “An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.” The penalty for a first offense includes a $100 fine, and a CPL suspension of up to six months.

    Q: If I get pulled over by the police while I am lawfully carrying a concealed pistol, is it considered sufficient notice to hand over my Concealed Pistol License (CPL) with my Driver’s License?

    A: Maybe not.

    In one recent case, the driver handed his CPL over to the officer who stopped him. He did this because he had been told by a reliable source (an experienced police officer from another jurisdiction) that it is considered dangerous to use the word “gun” when talking to an officer on the road side since officers yell, “Gun!” to one another when a dangerous person displays a firearm. The driver was ticketed for the non-disclosure. In subsequent trial, the dashboard video camera record showed that it was approximately 40 seconds after the officer arrived at the driver’s window that the driver verbally disclosed his concealed pistol.

    The court found that the simple act of handing over the CPL was not adequate disclosure and that the 40-second delay before verbally disclosing was not “immediate disclosure.”
    I'm speechless. Wow

    Michael

  5. #50
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    ... In Texas it really is a pretty limited set of circumstances and not simply when you are occupying the same lobby or serving line ect.

    And by simply handing your DL and CHL over to the officer you get the information and point across to the officer without the words "I have a gun" coming out of your mouth...
    Agree 100%. As has been pointed out, here in Texas you're required to show your CHL ONLY if you are "officially" asked by a LEO for your ID/DL and you actually have a weapon on you or in your immediate reach (for example in the glove compartment of a car you're driving), otherwise it isn't necessary. After that, if an officer wants to see your weapon he'll tell you, otherwise say thank you when he says "have a nice day" and get about your business.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  6. #51
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    BTW, in the 7 years I've had my CHL, I've had two occasions to have "official" interaction with a police officer and both were traffic stops. Once I didn't have a weapon with me and the other time I did. In both instances I gave the officer both my DL and CHL. Both times the officer asked if I had a weapon on me and I said either yes or no, depending on the circumstance. When I replied yes, the officer asked where it was, I told him the guns location (in the overhead console) and he asked that I not remove it. He then returned to his car and called in my info. After he returned with my license a few minutes later, he asked what type of gun I used, we talked for a few minutes, he told me to come to a complete halt, not a California roll, at Stop signs in the future and we went our separate ways.

    My point is that's it's not really necessary to inform an officer that you're carrying a gun since it's implied by the fact you are showing him/her your CHL. If they want to confirm you are carrying, they will ask and tell you what they want you to do if you do have a weapon. Actually, I know a number of LEO's and several have said they are sometimes "taken aback" when someone tells them out of the blue that they have a gun on them. I'd prefer to have them make the initial request and ask me, then tell the officer my guns location and follow his instructions from that point.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    In NC, I have duty to inform upon official contact. It's not based on whether or not I am carrying a weapon. The fact I have a CHP invokes the requirement to inform. Whether or not I am armed is the second sentence out of my mouth.
    Are you sure? I've carried in NC and reviewed the law before visiting - nothing was noted about notifying if you are NOT carrying.

    Here's the North Carolina Gen. Stat. that I used:

    "Any individual who has applied for and has been issued a concealed handgun permit must follow certain regulations concerning its use. Not only must the individual carry the permit along with proper identification whenever the handgun is being carried concealed, but he/she must also inform any law enforcement officer who approaches him/her that he/she is in possession of a permit and a concealed handgun. N.C. Gen. Stat. 14415.11(a) Failure to do so is a first offense infraction and subjects the permittee to payment of a fine of up to $100.00."

    Is there a section I missed?

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I hate to bring up this frankenthread....but I just had a similiar discussion with my parents who just took their NC permit class. The instructor told them the same thing--even if you aren't carrying, you're supposed to inform the officer. This doesn't make any sense, so I looked up the law myself. It states (from http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl...-415.11.html):


    Thus, by the law itself--if you are carrying, you are required to disclose. The law does NOT state you must disclose regardless if you are NOT carrying. It appears to be a fallacy that because one has a permit in NC, you must advertise your permit status even if you aren't carrying. I'm not buying the "officer safety" line, because if you aren't armed, your permit isn't going to hurt him. VA cops don't seem to have a problem with non-disclosure (VA is not a "duty to inform state").

    So, that said, what's the deal with NC and fallacious duty to inform when you are not carrying?

    Somebody should contact that instructor and correct him. Of the 10 states that are Must Inform, NONE of them require it if you are not armed.

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders View Post
    Agree 100%. As has been pointed out, here in Texas you're required to show your CHL ONLY if you are "officially" asked by a LEO for your ID/DL and you actually have a weapon on you or in your immediate reach (for example in the glove compartment of a car you're driving), otherwise it isn't necessary. After that, if an officer wants to see your weapon he'll tell you, otherwise say thank you when he says "have a nice day" and get about your business.
    I like this idea. In Oklahoma we must notify is we are being detained which leaves it open to a judgment call. I am going to discuss this with my State Reps to see if they will support changing our law.
    While this may seem like making a mountain out of a mole hill. I can see no harm in taking any question out of when a person is legally required to tell anyone that he is armed.

    Michael

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I needed to do this for the first time two nights ago. We were driving into our golf club for a pre-tournament party with a band, food, and cocktails. Since I planned to drink, I didn't carry. As I wheeled up the driveway, the city police were there to screen people driving into the clubhouse area. I wasn't sure how club management was able to get cops to serve as parking valets, but they did. When I wheeled up, two female officers asked for our names so they could compare them against the guest list.

    Even though I knew they wouldn't ask for my ID, I felt this was close enough to the definition to inform. I did. They gave me a quirky look as they saw my hands splayed on the wheel, then thanked me, ticked off my name, and we were on our way.

    I don't get it, you said you were not carrying, because you planned on having a few drinks (good decision btw). So if you were not carrying, why did you inform them?

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    It means that you must reveal your license status when ever an" official interaction "is performed.

    That means that if an officer asks you for I.D. then you must advise him if you are carrying a handgun. It doesn't mean informing because you are standing by him in a restaurant,church,park, or anywhere else. You must only inform if his inquiry is "official".

    Get traffic stopped by a cop? Then inform.
    This. And only if you are in a "Must Inform" state. In GA (and many other states) you only have to disclose if asked directly..."Are you carrying any weapons?" I was talking to as friend of mine who is a LEO about this very thing. He told me people have actually told him they are carrying for no appearent reason and then asked if he wanted to see their gun. He said he usually responds "Not unless you want to see mine. You keep your's holstered and I'll keep mine holstered and we'll both be much happier."

    Dave can be a big goof sometimes....

    VR,
    Harold

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    Duuuuuhhhhhh!

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HotGuns
    It means that you must reveal your license status when ever an" official interaction "is performed.

    That means that if an officer asks you for I.D. then you must advise him if you are carrying a handgun. It doesn't mean informing because you are standing by him in a restaurant,church,park, or anywhere else. You must only inform if his inquiry is "official".

    Get traffic stopped by a cop? Then inform.
    If only it were written up this simple in all must inform States. This would leave no possible disagreement as to when a person is required to notify.

    Michael

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    If only it were written up this simple in all must inform States. This would leave no possible disagreement as to when a person is required to notify.

    Michael
    it is that simple, some people over think the easy stuff

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    it is that simple, some people over think the easy stuff
    Its not always that simple. If an officer is on a "fishing expedition" he may not want me to know if I am being detained. He may want me to think that it is just a casual conversation when in truth he sees it as official business. What is wrong with the officer making it clear that this is an official encounter?
    An officer asking for an ID would remove all questions. What is wrong with that?

    Michael

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