Defensive Carry banner

What exactly does "must inform officer" mean?

19K views 69 replies 46 participants last post by  Mrt 
#1 ·
When you're in the same room as the officer? In the same line at McDonald's? Only when in direct conversation?

"Excuse me sir, your fly is open. Oh by the way, now that I'm talking to you I am required by law to inform you (and raise your adrenaline level) I am carrying a concealed firearm". Hmm, I fail to see any good side to this. In practice, do CCW holders really make such disclosures even in casual interactions?
 
#2 ·
It means that you must reveal your license status when ever an" official interaction "is performed.

That means that if an officer asks you for I.D. then you must advise him if you are carrying a handgun. It doesn't mean informing because you are standing by him in a restaurant,church,park, or anywhere else. You must only inform if his inquiry is "official".

Get traffic stopped by a cop? Then inform.
 
#8 ·
It means that you must reveal your license status when ever an" official interaction "is performed.
Way I've understood it as well.
 
#3 ·
Since you're in Texas, here's the definition of "Must Inform" according to Texas statute:

Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.
GOVERNMENT CODE**CHAPTER 411. DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OF THE STATE OF TEXAS

By the way, "about your person" includes within reach in the interior of a car (console, glove compartment, back seat, etc.). Oddly, in Texas, you don't have to inform the officer of the existence of a firearm in your center console if you DON'T have a CHL.
 
#31 ·
I think this makes sense, the only official interaction I have had since I got my CPL is to report someone going through my unlocked car during the night. They didn't get anything. Since I was on my own property and the officer did not ask for my ID I didn't inform, although I probably should have.
I was actually expecting him to ask for the ID and since he didn't I didn't know when to bring it up.
 
#4 ·
To me it is anytime a officer speaks directly to you when going about the normal duties of his job. Certainly if you are asked for ID you should tell him, and show the permit to him. The few times I have been pulled over both my front windows go down and my hands are clearly up on top of the steering wheel in plain sight. I will usually tell him I am carrying even before he says anything to me. I have been in his shoes many times and walking up on a unkown vehicle with dark tinted windows isn't the best feeling in the world. I simply treat him as I would want to be treated myself. This doesn't mean kissing his rear end, it means being respectful of the man/woman and the job they are paid to do. Simple as that.
 
#5 ·
Simple and direct....well put...

I went to a bike dealership that was having a big open house today...two county sheriff's officers were assisting with traffic control...

I had to talk to them to get my truck into the lot as I was picking up a generator...I said nothing to them about carrying, since I started the conversation...

But if I had been stopped by an officer...NCHornet hit the nail on the head...
 
#7 ·
It means you either tell the Officer#1 I have a license to carry and I'm packing,or#2 just pull it out and show him...I wouldn't suggest you ever do option #2
 
  • Like
Reactions: baren
#9 ·
I needed to do this for the first time two nights ago. We were driving into our golf club for a pre-tournament party with a band, food, and cocktails. Since I planned to drink, I didn't carry. As I wheeled up the driveway, the city police were there to screen people driving into the clubhouse area. I wasn't sure how club management was able to get cops to serve as parking valets, but they did. When I wheeled up, two female officers asked for our names so they could compare them against the guest list.

Even though I knew they wouldn't ask for my ID, I felt this was close enough to the definition to inform. I did. They gave me a quirky look as they saw my hands splayed on the wheel, then thanked me, ticked off my name, and we were on our way.
 
#14 ·
I needed to do this for the first time two nights ago. We were driving into our golf club for a pre-tournament party with a band, food, and cocktails. Since I planned to drink, I didn't carry. As I wheeled up the driveway, the city police were there to screen people driving into the clubhouse area. I wasn't sure how club management was able to get cops to serve as parking valets, but they did. When I wheeled up, two female officers asked for our names so they could compare them against the guest list.

Even though I knew they wouldn't ask for my ID, I felt this was close enough to the definition to inform. I did. They gave me a quirky look as they saw my hands splayed on the wheel, then thanked me, ticked off my name, and we were on our way.
Inform them of what? That you're not carrying? Whether your state is "must inform" or not, I don't think informing is ever implied unless a firearm is on hand. It's not a matter of simply being licensed requires informing.

FL requires informing only when asked, but the LEOs I work with seem to prefer to be notified regardless. It avoids the "surprise" aspect.
 
#10 ·
As Hotguns and Gruntingfrog have pointed out. In Texas it really is a pretty limited set of circumstances and not simply when you are occupying the same lobby or serving line ect.

And by simply handing your DL and CHL over to the officer you get the information and point across to the officer without the words "I have a gun" coming out of your mouth, since those words should never come out of your mouth as a CHL holder.

When you take your class this should be covered. If you have taken your class already and it wasn't covered, your instructor needs to do a bit better job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: baren
#50 ·
... In Texas it really is a pretty limited set of circumstances and not simply when you are occupying the same lobby or serving line ect.

And by simply handing your DL and CHL over to the officer you get the information and point across to the officer without the words "I have a gun" coming out of your mouth...
Agree 100%. As has been pointed out, here in Texas you're required to show your CHL ONLY if you are "officially" asked by a LEO for your ID/DL and you actually have a weapon on you or in your immediate reach (for example in the glove compartment of a car you're driving), otherwise it isn't necessary. After that, if an officer wants to see your weapon he'll tell you, otherwise say thank you when he says "have a nice day" and get about your business.
 
#16 ·
Just to clarify, Oklahoma has the same sort of "official business" requirement as Texas although the definition of what constitutes official business is slightly different. This means if you stop to ask a police officer for directions, for example, you don't have to inform*.

*That would probably be creepy anyway: "Excuse me officer. I'm a CHL holder and currently carrying on my person. Do you know how to get to the Chuck E. Cheese?"

TITLE 21 § 1290.8. Possession of License Required-Notification to Police of Gun
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop.
 
#13 ·
I believe there was a recent case in I think Michigan, where a citizen was charged with not immediately informing the officer during a traffic stop that he was carrying and had a permit. The interesting thing is that the time between the initial contact and the citizen telling the officer that he was legally carrying was...40 seconds. The court said that this was not "immediate" and the citizen lost in court.
 
#26 ·
Please cite a source for that.

Although, while 40 seconds does not seem like a long period of time... when engaged in conversation, 40 seconds can be considered to be pretty far into it.

For example, if an officer approaches your vehicle and immediately asks "May I see your license and registration please?" A ccw holder who is required by law to inform LEO's should reply by saying, "Yes sir, and I am required to inform you that I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and I am doing so presently." That takes on average around 5 seconds for the entire exchange.

If on the other hand, you start to engage the officer as to why he stopped you, and maybe saying other ancillary things like you weren't doing anything wrong or stuff like, "I didn't realize I was speeding", or "I didn't mean to run that stop sign", you quickly approach an extended conversation without fulfilling the requirements of the law, which is to immediately inform all LEO when engaged in official business.

Yes, 40 seconds seems like a rather short period of time, and in my opinion an officer who is going to make an issue out of it, may seem to be kind of unreasonable. So, I would sure like you to post a source of you were heard that. I would like verification that a case like that went to court and the permit holder lost the case.

Regardless, I'm glad I live in a state where I am not required to inform LEO I am carrying unless they ask me specifically if I'm carrying, or have any weapons.
 
#15 ·
Answer depends on the state. SC is a "must inform" state but their law is written in a way that only those with an SC CCW license are required to inform an officer. In SC, anyone who can legally own a handgun is allowed to keep it in the car in a spot that's not immediately accessible (in the console, for example). There's a thread on this on the forum...
 
#18 ·
Ohio is a "must inform" state, and it applies to "official contact", such as a traffic stop, etc., with a LEO. If you have a CHL and you are carrying, you must inform the officer. If you are NOT carrying, you do not have to say anything. However, since your status as a CHL holder pops up on the officer's computer, it is advised to inform the officer that you have a CHL but are not carrying at the time. Just as a courtesy. My wife, who has her CHL, and her sister-in-law were driving to the airport a couple of weeks ago to pick up my brother-in-law. It was night, they missed a turn, and pulled a U-turn. They got stopped by a local LEO for the illegal U-turn. My wife rolled down her window, turned off the car, and sat with both hands on the steering wheel in plain sight. When the officer came up to her, she informed him she was licensed to carry, but was NOT carrying at that time. She explained where they were going and that they had missed their turn. He thanked her for informing him, examined her drivers license, and sent her on her way with a verbal warning. No fuss no muss. Good encounter, and I'm sure the CHL helped her avoid a ticket.:yup:
 
#20 ·
One even told me that he relaxes when someone tells him flat out, "I ain't worried about honest people!" :image035:
Why is not informing dishonest? There are probably just as many LEOs who get unnecessarily fearful and aggressive when told you are armed as there are LEOs who relax when told, and you can't tell which one you'll get ahead of time.
 
#21 ·
Hit the sobriety checkpoint on the way to work the other night, handed the state trooper my license to carry as well as my driver's license, his response? He grinned real big and said, "And I'll bet you ARE Packing!" I said yes, he said "and you have a good night sir, be safe" Didn't even ask me if I'd had anything to drink. I don't drink so the answer would have been no in any case. But, a bit unusual that he didn't ask. Granted, I hit the checkpoint fairly often, it's on the exit ramp off the interstate, but, I don't remember this officer in particular, though there are a couple that recognize me and wave me on through.
Still, it's the most interesting response I've gotten from informing so far :smile:, usually it's just a "Just don't reach for it" and continue with what their doing.
 
#23 ·
Agree 100% with farronwolf. I usually just hand over my DL and CHL. If I have to verbally announce anything regarding carrying I will just say that I have my CHL. I have never and will never simply say that I have a gun. CHL 101. Usually when i tell an officer that I have my CHL they will then ask if I am carrying or not. I have never had an issue.
 
#25 ·
I've made a point of warning my wife that if she gets pulled over without me in the car, the officer will likely ask if I am in the vehicle (tinted minivan, oooohhh). Normally that kind of question leads to something horrible, like finding out that someone is evading a warrant, etc.
 
#41 ·
In North Carolina your CCW permit number is the same as your DL, the one time I was stopped and unarmed the officer did ask if I was armed after running DL, after informing him I was not there was no further discussion as to CCW.
 
#42 ·
It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop.
Just a thought. What if I do not realize that I am being detained? That I am free to go? I can see a problem if the permit holder and the officer were not on the same page here.

Michael
 
#43 ·
the cop stopped you and made contact, he probably asked you for ID, that is the point when you must inform him that you are carrying, if things get to a point where a cop is going to detain you and you hadn't informed them of your carrying he could just add that charge after possibly proning you out
 
#44 ·
Here is the regs for Louisiana:

The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer. Anyone who fails to do so shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars. Additionally, when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:

1.Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;

2.Submit to a pat down;

3.Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.

FWIW, I called LSP a while back and asked them if it was necessary in any way to advise them about your permit though the permit holder was unarmed. The guy I talked to said no reason if you were unarmed, that it was essentially about "officer safety" issue's.
 
#46 ·
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. The case was an Indiana Supreme Court decision. See the following.


RICHARD L. BARNES,
STATE OF INDIANA,
In the
Indiana Supreme Court
_________________________________ No. 82S05-1007-CR-343
Appellant (Defendant below),
v.
Appellee (Plaintiff below).
 
#47 ·
OOPS...sent you the wrong case. Although this one is interesting. it says that no matter how outrageous and illegal a police officer's actions are, in the state of Indiana, a citizen NEVER has the right to resist an arrest. This would be true under this decision even if a drunken cop grabs you on the street, says you are under arrest, gives no reason, and starts beating you. You cannot resist. I will try and find the Michigan case. Sorry again but you might want to take a look at the Indiana decision.
 
#48 ·
Try this story...

Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners
Michigan - -(AmmoLand.com)- MCRGO Frequently Asked Questions:

MCL 28.425f(3) states: “An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.” The penalty for a first offense includes a $100 fine, and a CPL suspension of up to six months.

Q: If I get pulled over by the police while I am lawfully carrying a concealed pistol, is it considered sufficient notice to hand over my Concealed Pistol License (CPL) with my Driver’s License?

A: Maybe not.

In one recent case, the driver handed his CPL over to the officer who stopped him. He did this because he had been told by a reliable source (an experienced police officer from another jurisdiction) that it is considered dangerous to use the word “gun” when talking to an officer on the road side since officers yell, “Gun!” to one another when a dangerous person displays a firearm. The driver was ticketed for the non-disclosure. In subsequent trial, the dashboard video camera record showed that it was approximately 40 seconds after the officer arrived at the driver’s window that the driver verbally disclosed his concealed pistol.

The court found that the simple act of handing over the CPL was not adequate disclosure and that the 40-second delay before verbally disclosing was not “immediate disclosure.”
 
#49 ·
Try this story...

Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners
Michigan - -(AmmoLand.com)- MCRGO Frequently Asked Questions:

MCL 28.425f(3) states: “An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.” The penalty for a first offense includes a $100 fine, and a CPL suspension of up to six months.

Q: If I get pulled over by the police while I am lawfully carrying a concealed pistol, is it considered sufficient notice to hand over my Concealed Pistol License (CPL) with my Driver’s License?

A: Maybe not.

In one recent case, the driver handed his CPL over to the officer who stopped him. He did this because he had been told by a reliable source (an experienced police officer from another jurisdiction) that it is considered dangerous to use the word “gun” when talking to an officer on the road side since officers yell, “Gun!” to one another when a dangerous person displays a firearm. The driver was ticketed for the non-disclosure. In subsequent trial, the dashboard video camera record showed that it was approximately 40 seconds after the officer arrived at the driver’s window that the driver verbally disclosed his concealed pistol.

The court found that the simple act of handing over the CPL was not adequate disclosure and that the 40-second delay before verbally disclosing was not “immediate disclosure.”
I'm speechless. Wow

Michael
 
#51 ·
BTW, in the 7 years I've had my CHL, I've had two occasions to have "official" interaction with a police officer and both were traffic stops. Once I didn't have a weapon with me and the other time I did. In both instances I gave the officer both my DL and CHL. Both times the officer asked if I had a weapon on me and I said either yes or no, depending on the circumstance. When I replied yes, the officer asked where it was, I told him the guns location (in the overhead console) and he asked that I not remove it. He then returned to his car and called in my info. After he returned with my license a few minutes later, he asked what type of gun I used, we talked for a few minutes, he told me to come to a complete halt, not a California roll, at Stop signs in the future and we went our separate ways.

My point is that's it's not really necessary to inform an officer that you're carrying a gun since it's implied by the fact you are showing him/her your CHL. If they want to confirm you are carrying, they will ask and tell you what they want you to do if you do have a weapon. Actually, I know a number of LEO's and several have said they are sometimes "taken aback" when someone tells them out of the blue that they have a gun on them. I'd prefer to have them make the initial request and ask me, then tell the officer my guns location and follow his instructions from that point.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top