Alcohol and Situational Awareness- Incompatible? - Page 5

Alcohol and Situational Awareness- Incompatible?

This is a discussion on Alcohol and Situational Awareness- Incompatible? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by hamlet I understand the point. I'm not worried about it - just discussing the topic. Respect....

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    I understand the point. I'm not worried about it - just discussing the topic.
    Respect.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)


  2. #62
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Carrying needs to be taken seriously and alcohol should generally be avoided if one is serious defense, but nothing needs to be absolute.

    As an aside, has anyone noticed that they get better at certain things (e.g. darts, pool) once they hit their sweet spot - usually 2-5 drinks? It is obviously due to the fact that these activities are almost always done while drinking, so maybe CCW's should hit the range after happy hour.

  3. #63
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Back From South America: A Perspective

    While on an operational exercise w/ other South American Navies, we made a port call to Rio de Janeiro Brazil and had a great time. Great culture too. However, one of our sailors got drunk in a bar and got his wallet and credit cards pickpocketed while in an inebriated state and socializing with a hooker. Situations like this goes to show why being sober is very important not only for situational awareness, but for your ability to run or defend yourself.

  4. #64
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    While on an operational exercise w/ other South American Navies, we made a port call to Rio de Janeiro Brazil and had a great time. Great culture too. However, one of our sailors got drunk in a bar and got his wallet and credit cards pickpocketed while in an inebriated state and socializing with a hooker. Situations like this goes to show why being sober is very important not only for situational awareness, but for your ability to run or defend yourself.
    STOP THE PRESSES! Do you mean a sailor on shore leave in a foreign country gets ripped off while drunk and hanging around with a hooker? Say it isn't so. This must be the first time this has ever happened. There oughta be a law!

  5. #65
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    STOP THE PRESSES! Do you mean a sailor on shore leave in a foreign country gets ripped off while drunk and hanging around with a hooker? Say it isn't so. This must be the first time this has ever happened. There oughta be a law!
    It's on the front page of the TIMES today. (The headline is "THRONGS RIDE THE NY SUBWAYS TODAY")

  6. #66
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    It's on the front page of the TIMES today. (The headline is "THRONGS RIDE THE NY SUBWAYS TODAY")
    Heh, heh..


    This has only been happening for the last 8500 years or so. Xerxes' navy had this problem. The US Navy even has a video they show to the sailors about to go on liberty. I've seen it.

  7. #67
    Member Array The Dark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Well, here come all the Neo-Prohibitionists. Then the debate swings between the teetotalers, and the one glass of beer or wine with a meal gang. There is also the unspoken assumption that people who are "drinkers" are all slurring, falling-down-drunk roadhouse brawlers spring-loaded to snap into a fight at the least provocation.
    Don't recall saying don't drink or that I don't drink. But I avoid drinking when I am driving (always have - I have a professional license that I could lose, and thus my job, were I to be detained DUI - my career could be impacted even if I were impaired although below the limit) and when I am carrying outside of the home. I simply prefer not to tempt fate.

    To insist that a drink does not potentially impair SA and the other core abilities that underlie our self-protection with a firearm is misguided; alcohol's effects are subtle but occur even at low doses. Legal or not (FL law does not preclude drinking while armed, just that one cannot be in a bar area), I would not want to have to defend myself, even successfully, and be found to a detectable BAC. I suspect this would drastically undermine a case for justifiable defense in all but the most egregious cases...and would also impact any civil suit.

    BTW, the argument with regard to parents allowing access to alcohol and the role of age-limits on subsequent drinking patterns is being fought out continually between the law, the research community, parents and college administrators. Glad it worked out for you and yours, but it is always a tenuous proposition to generalize from one's own anecdotal data set to the world at large. For instance, some suggest that in cultures where minimum age requirements are not in place, problems associated with alcohol use are decreased, that making it available helps teach responsible use...the data do not always support this idea. As with most things, it becomes clear if it was a good idea or not after the fact.
    "To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence." Friedrich Nietzsche

  8. #68
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark View Post
    To insist that a drink does not potentially impair SA and the other core abilities that underlie our self-protection with a firearm is misguided; alcohol's effects are subtle but occur even at low doses.

    BTW, the argument with regard to parents allowing access to alcohol and the role of age-limits on subsequent drinking patterns is being fought out continually between the law, the research community, parents and college administrators. Glad it worked out for you and yours, but it is always a tenuous proposition to generalize from one's own anecdotal data set to the world at large. For instance, some suggest that in cultures where minimum age requirements are not in place, problems associated with alcohol use are decreased, that making it available helps teach responsible use...the data do not always support this idea. As with most things, it becomes clear if it was a good idea or not after the fact.
    For the record, I was NOT insisting that alcohol doesn't affect your SA. In fact, I would insist that it does - even in small doses as you state. So do many prescription drugs, lack of sleep, stress, age, experience, and many other factors.

    I also posted that alcohol is a dangerous drug. That's why we wanted our kids exposed to it and trained. Just like firearms. Would you buy your child a firearm and not train him/her in its function, safety, and maintenance? Why do some parents and most legislators think they don't need to do this with alcohol?

    Here's another anecdote for you: just last week near where I live, a 16 year-old driving a Lincoln Navigator with his 13 year-old sister as a passenger killed a motorcycle rider by failing to yield at an intersection. Personally, I don't think 16 year-olds should be allowed to drive on any public roads.

  9. #69
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    STOP THE PRESSES! Do you mean a sailor on shore leave in a foreign country gets ripped off while drunk and hanging around with a hooker? Say it isn't so. This must be the first time this has ever happened. There oughta be a law!
    He was the only one from my ship who got pickpocketed.

  10. #70
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    STOP THE PRESSES! Do you mean a sailor on shore leave in a foreign country gets ripped off while drunk and hanging around with a hooker? Say it isn't so. This must be the first time this has ever happened. There oughta be a law!
    The only unique thing about it was that he was the only one from my ship that got pickpocketed.

  11. #71
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    STOP THE PRESSES! Do you mean a sailor on shore leave in a foreign country gets ripped off while drunk and hanging around with a hooker? Say it isn't so. This must be the first time this has ever happened. There oughta be a law!
    This was the first and only one that got pickpocketed there while in Rio de Janeiro.

  12. #72
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    STOP THE PRESSES! Do you mean a sailor on shore leave in a foreign country gets ripped off while drunk and hanging around with a hooker? Say it isn't so. This must be the first time this has ever happened. There oughta be a law!
    He was the only one that night that ended up with his wallet stolen.

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Lots of interesting dialogue. As I think back over my vast experiences in life, I can't think of a single situation in which I ever thought, "Man, I'm glad I was drinking...that really made the outcome of this situation much better."

    Just my personal observation.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  14. #74
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    He was the only one from my ship who got pickpocketed.
    Was he the only one that got drunk?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #75
    Member Array CowboyKen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark View Post
    ... I would not want to have to defend myself, even successfully, and be found to a detectable BAC. I suspect this would drastically undermine a case for justifiable defense in all but the most egregious cases...and would also impact any civil suit.

    BTW, the argument with regard to parents allowing access to alcohol and the role of age-limits on subsequent drinking patterns is being fought out continually between the law, the research community, parents and college administrators. Glad it worked out for you and yours, but it is always a tenuous proposition to generalize from one's own anecdotal data set to the world at large. For instance, some suggest that in cultures where minimum age requirements are not in place, problems associated with alcohol use are decreased, that making it available helps teach responsible use...the data do not always support this idea. As with most things, it becomes clear if it was a good idea or not after the fact.
    OK, I see that you appreciate the value of data to support a position. What data supports your first assertion, that "to have to defend myself, even successfully, and be found to a detectable BAC. ...would drastically undermine a case for justifiable defense."

    I have tried and not found a single case where this was true (I have found the opposite).

    Just curious if you have any facts (data) to back this up.

    Ken

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