Cannot carry at work question

Cannot carry at work question

This is a discussion on Cannot carry at work question within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello to all. I'm a new member from SC. Still waiting on my CWP (took the class 6 weeks ago). My question is related to ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array jdf3834's Avatar
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    Question Cannot carry at work question

    Hello to all. I'm a new member from SC. Still waiting on my CWP (took the class 6 weeks ago).

    My question is related to carrying at work. I am a Code Enforcement Officer / Building Official in SC. My job often requires me to be probing around abandoned houses. I often piss people off by telling them to do things they don't want to do (comply with city zoning laws and building codes). Many times they are holding a hammer or other tool. I'm usually alone and often in a house with people I don't know. I've had folks get so angry they practically turn blue in the face and tell me to get off their property (even though I have every right to be there). I write tickets for up to $500, and that doesn't get you invited over for supper either.

    My employer gave me a document when I hired on that firearms are prohibited while on duty or in city vehicles. It didn't specifically address a CWP, however.

    I'm planning on asking formally for permission to carry once the permit arrives. I plan to word the letter so that the city understands they will be sued by me or my relatives if something bad befalls me.

    Any suggestions on the wording of such a request to carry letter to an employer? Any similar experiences to share?


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    Hello to all. I'm a new member from SC. Still waiting on my CWP (took the class 6 weeks ago).

    My question is related to carrying at work. I am a Code Enforcement Officer / Building Official in SC. My job often requires me to be probing around abandoned houses. I often piss people off by telling them to do things they don't want to do (comply with city zoning laws and building codes). Many times they are holding a hammer or other tool. I'm usually alone and often in a house with people I don't know. I've had folks get so angry they practically turn blue in the face and tell me to get off their property (even though I have every right to be there). I write tickets for up to $500, and that doesn't get you invited over for supper either.

    My employer gave me a document when I hired on that firearms are prohibited while on duty or in city vehicles. It didn't specifically address a CWP, however.

    I'm planning on asking formally for permission to carry once the permit arrives. I plan to word the letter so that the city understands they will be sued by me or my relatives if something bad befalls me.

    Any suggestions on the wording of such a request to carry letter to an employer? Any similar experiences to share?
    I doubt your request will favorably acted upon. Re-read the part of your post in bold. Was there anything in that document that provided an exception for employees with permits?

    However, nothing ventured, nothing gained. If you proceed with a written request, keep it simple, keep it brief, avoid hyperbole and invective, and state your reasons as rationally as possible for wanting to be armed on the job.

    You might consider an off-the-record conversation with a trusted senior staff member about the wisdom of submitting a written request before actually doing so. Some un-enlightened management may think ill of your request no matter how neutrally it's presented... remember you work in the public sector and the term "bureaucracy" should leap into your mind. Good luck.
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    Member Array jdf3834's Avatar
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    I have spoken with the police chief about it. He supports my request. I'm hoping that will add some sway.

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    Quit ******* people off lol become a Welfare Services Worker I think they only deal with nice kind hearted folks or become a politician

    Sorry I'm no help good luck though

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    Depends on how much you need that job.

    If they become concerned you are carrying on the job after denying your request how much damage could be done?

    The reason I ask is that I also cannot carry at work. In reality this basically means I dont carry most of the time because after work I have to go other places and so really its only at home or on the weekends I am regularly armed.

    But, before anyone jumps on me for that, I dont have a choice. Ive heard the statement before whats more important your job or your life. Well without my job and more specifically the insurance that comes with it, I would die. So I dont do anything to jeopardize that.

    Does it piss me off? Yes. Do I carry a Knife and Oc? Yes. Do I have any other option I can see? No. Maybe you do though. Just be prepared that you "could" lose your job over it. JMO.

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    It's doubtful, but would the police chief be willing to go to bat for you either verbally or in writing? He (and you) probably knows better than your employer/supervisor(s) do, what and who you are dealing with and the risk it poses to you.

    I would avoid "warning/threatening" them with a lawsuit if something were to happen to you. However, if you do decide to document your request to be armed, I would provide detailed accounts and specific (date/time) examples of potentially life threatening incidences that may have occured to you. No need to list irate residents, but do list when you thought great bodily harm or your life were being threatened.

    Put yourself in their place as you compose your request. There are issues of liability and accountability that will play heavily in their minds, and rightfully so. All of the "what if's" (from a liability perspective) will most likely not side in your favor. Also, if they do grant your request, who's to say that the meter maid, among other non-LEO's, also should/n't be armed? Would you consider any less-than-lethal self defense tools, such as pepper spray, taser device, baton, mag lite, etc., as an alternative(s) to carrying your gun/pistol?

    And finally, you may also want to look into taking up martial arts or a self defense course/class. Just as gun battles should be avoided at all costs, so should physical altercations, however, if it came down to hands being laid upon you during the course of performing your job, it's nice to know that you are able to deal with this in a calm and effective manner.

    Just my 2 yen.

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    Senior Member Array justherenow's Avatar
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    First off, code enforcement is about respected by me as the tax guy or Obama. I had a code guy trespass and break into my garage, that was the last inspection he ever did after being fired and charged with breaking and entering. Government official will have to aquire a warrant to access my property .

    To answer your question, I think the letter is a bad move. It will draw their attention to you, not sure of your state law but are you able to carry onto or in government property? If not no letter will change that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    My employer gave me a document when I hired on that firearms are prohibited while on duty or in city vehicles. It didn't specifically address a CWP, however.
    It didn't need to specify, it stated "no firearms". Unless SC has some state-mandated exclusion for CWP, it's pretty clear to a 'reasonable man' what "no firearms" means...

    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    I plan to word the letter so that the city understands they will be sued by me or my relatives if something bad befalls me.
    You will have then turned yourself into a liability; hell, I'd fire you after getting that letter. Are you so good at your job you have no fear of being fired? I do not know how it works in SC, but here in CO they can fire someone for no reason: you would be giving them a very good reason.

    God forbid you actually have to pull your weapon out, should you choose to carry. Unless you have witnesses and proof of impending death, you and your city will be sued by the customer, you will be promptly fired and your city will probably sue you to recoup the damages from the suit you created.

    You have IMO three choices:
    1. Comply with the city policy.
    2. Choose to ignore the city policy and assume the potential risk.
    3. Find a different job.

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    If it specifically says no firearms I'd explore other defensive methods such as impact weapons, taser, sprays etc. or keep my mouth shut and carry any way, then again I don't have a city/state job.

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    Senior Member Array justherenow's Avatar
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    Look at it the other way. You go into anothers house, something happens and you pull on them or shoot, your in their home, you would have a hard time proving you had a right to shoot.


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    jdf3834, welcome to the forum.

    When making a request as you indicate, avoid anything that sounds threatening. You are in a position that is unfortunately not holding a high probability of success with your request. Remember that they provided you a written policy forbidding firearms on your person or in city vehicles. Being that you work for a municipality, and your title is "Code Enforcement Officer," having someone carrying a firearm that has not been through the training that other "Officers" have, carries a liability for the city that they aren't likely to accept.

    First, you already work there and you probably never mentioned your concerns until you decided to exercise your 2nd amendment rights. At least you didn't mention it in the OP.

    Second, threatening legal action will almost always be counter-productive unless there is some union or agreement in place to protect you.

    I would submit the request using the reasons that you feel necessary and include a written statement from the LEO you mentioned. Be careful if you should poll other Code Enforcement Officers it will likely be construed as lobbying and probably not well received.

    Personally, I would not want your job. We had a Code Enforcement Officer shot and killed here in CO not too long ago. I would rather carry, live, get fired and find another job than die defenseless. Just MHO.

    Good luck
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    Tomtsr makes some excellent points above.

    I'll add that since your employer likely cannot provide approval to you for liability reasons, what they need is 'plausable deniability'.
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    Although I sympathize, if you are gonna drop that kind of letter on the bosses desk, you might want to have another job lined up first. OMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martial Archer View Post
    Although I sympathize, if you are gonna drop that kind of letter on the bosses desk, you might want to have another job lined up first. OMO
    Yup - polish up that resume, because if you send that letter, you'll be back on the street.

    Oh - and be very wary of people who advise you to break the law.

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    Most municipalities will only allow "sworn" officers to carry a firearm in any manner due to liability issues. That generally means one must be a "law enforcement officer."

    I sympathize with your position. I can carry a firearm to work, but not into the building. I'm a weight inspector, and you haven't seen upset until you hand a trucker a $2000 ticket! Fortunately, my facility is bullet proof, and I don't have to step outside unless I choose to (and I usually do). I'm sure the city lawyers will nix any requests to CC in a New York minute.
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