Preparedness Discussion Thread For Those Who Carry Unchambered - Page 2

Preparedness Discussion Thread For Those Who Carry Unchambered

This is a discussion on Preparedness Discussion Thread For Those Who Carry Unchambered within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by JBPDXOR Thunder, It took me a while before I carried one in the chamber. I do carry a DA/SA Cougar 8000 9mm ...

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Thread: Preparedness Discussion Thread For Those Who Carry Unchambered

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBPDXOR View Post
    Thunder,

    It took me a while before I carried one in the chamber. I do carry a DA/SA Cougar 8000 9mm and sometimes with the manual safety on.
    This way I feel a little more "safe"? H$#@ Bells I do not know either.
    So I guess what the bottom line is I like the ability to have a round in the breach and still have the safety on. The DA/SA Cougar provides this option and opens a couple doors; Carry loaded, Carry locked and loaded, and by having an exposed hammer, I am able manually cock the hammer after releasing the safety, or just pull the trigger( God forbid) DA.
    Oh .......I carry loaded and not locked plus 95% of the time.
    Whatever carry method you choose, I suggest being consistent. Mixing it up - chambered, empty, safety on, safety off, whatever - is only asking for problems should you ever actually need to use your gun. Pick one way and stick with it so that you don't find yourself fumbling around trying to make your gun work when you need it the most.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    I just carry a rock lol

    Just kidding when I first started I carried with out one in the pipe to get comfortable that lasted about two hours and I realized it can't go off with out me pulling the trigger so I have carried with one chambered from then on when you need your really going to need it in stressful your motor skills may not function as well as you think but at least your carrying thats a start.

    What do you carry that would have an impact on what and how I carry. My G23 since it has no external safety I don't carry in my holster shirt or belly band because nothing solid is covering the trigger

  3. #18
    Member Array JBPDXOR's Avatar
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    I agree and I am trying to be consistent.
    Ooops I was going to add "I like the manual safety for unloading , as it provides just one more step for safety". So now I will re-evaluate my procedure.
    Being Consistent . I am working on that every time I practice dry firing several times a week.

    JBPDXOR
    JBPDXOR

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    As mentioned earlier, practice in less than optimal conditions, wet hands, cold, sweat, etc. You may have to have some texture added to your slide if you are boarder line on hand strength. Another concern is to be diligent on your muzzle awareness. It's easy to forget where you're pointing under stress and manipulating the slide under stress and that can lead to some interesting situations for trainers, ask me how I know.

    You may need to as QKShooter mentions, practice while fending off a physical attack. Use a blue gun and have someone just shoving you while you try to draw and simulate a slide manipulation. BLUE GUN BLUE GUN BLUE GUN! In this situation you are going to be more likely to get a misfeed since your movements will be interrupted when you have to fend off a move.

    Learn WHEN your first slide manipulation turns into a malfunction drill so you can transition with the least amount of hesitation.

    Consider what you may need your support hand for when in the company of family. If a situation arises you may need your support hand to direct a family member out of the line of fire and that takes away your initial time to chamber a round. Make sure you can transition from moving someone to chambering a round in a fluid motion. Remember to keep the gun in a close retention position until you are starting the slide manipulation.

    Get in the serious habit of moving off center when drawing to give yourself every possible millisecond to chamber a round. If you stand still you are giving away time.

    To repeat again an often repeated mantra, practice practice, practice.

    Good luck.

    Sorry, but I do have to add, I always carry with one in the chamber.
    QKShooter and OD* like this.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    I carry chambered, but like many here, I started out with an empty pipe.

    I would suggest reading through some of those "why you should carry chambered" threads you mentioned. Not because you need convincing, but because they all have a lot of 'what if. . .' scenarios like the 'fending off an attacker' mentioned above. Realizing that you might have to deal with some of those situations, consider how you would deal with them on an empty chamber. You need to be able to chamber a round while you're defending yourself from an attacker, when your weak side is wounded, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. . .

    I considered all of that and started carrying chambered. If you don't want to make that leap, then you should have a plan for dealing with those situations.

    I suppose that we should all do that, even if we do carry chambered. There's really nothing saying that we might not have to deal with an empty chamber in those situations even if it's chambered in the holster. I've had a few range-time malfunctions that led to a closed slide on an empty chamber with a charged magazine. . . those could easily happen during a firefight.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    It's a good thing that this forum is as friendly as it is. People tend to get real "emotional/passionate" about everything firearms, including one or not, in the pipe. This issue is a much a practical/tactical/pragmatic issue, as it is a philosophical (for lack of a better term) one.

    From a practical/tactical perspective, I think it's been covered fairly well. It all comes down to necessity to perform one more function during what is most likely to be high adrenaline pumping conditions, whether you are capable of racking one, and whether you have the time to rack one in the chamber.

    From a philisophical perspective, I think this too has been covered pretty well. However, here are some questions to think about:
    - Would you accept a vehicle with a horn or other warning device (turn signal, etc) that had a half-to-one second delay?
    - If you carried a wheel gun, would you keep the "next" cylinder empty?
    - If you owned a pump shot gun for HD, would/do you keep the chamber empty, hoping that the sound from the racking slide is a deterrent?
    - Do you believe a one armed person should conceal carry with the chamber empty? (serious question)
    - Have you actually timed yourself from holster draw to trigger pull, with and without one in chamber?

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Adkjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    I sincerely believe there is a big place for this discussion to be had in a positive light.

    Doesn't matter to me how or what people carry but I cannot think of one advantage to not carrying chambered. If your not comfortable or don't want to that's fine, people can do 1 thing 100 different ways and still get the same end result but do you mind sharing what you think the advantages are to carrying empty?

    Also curious, if you were to carry a revolver would you carry on an empty cylinder?
    Vermont does not issue Permit/Licenses to Carry a Concealed firearm. Vermont allows anyone
    who can legally own a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit of any kind.

  8. #23
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    That is why I only buy guns with safeties. Is the only way I feel comfortable

  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    I am currently awaiting response to my application for my Permit to Carry, but I do carry in my home & on my property without a round chambered. I've done my best to stay prepared for the slim chance that I'd need to use the weapon, keeping in mind that I'd need that extra second to pull the slide & be ready for the next step.

    When I began to consider a weapon purchase, I decided to start out right & take a basic handgun familiarization course (convinciing my wife to join me). I also took a membership at my local range & used my free pistol rentals to help me decide what weapon would suit my needs & start the process of proper handling & training. Since purchasing my first weapons about a year ago, I've always kept a full magazine of my SD ammo in the pistols along with a full back-up mag or so, but didn't want to keep a round chambered because I wasn't sure I'd be able to practice safe handling. I felt that as long as I prepared for the extra second that was needed to chamber a round, that my SD plan was reasonable.

    For the first 4 months or so I carried sporadically in & around my home with my Remora no clip holster, but at times found it uncomfortable to do so without wearing a belt on my shorts during warmer weather. When the weapon wasn't on me it would be holstered & high atop a shelf nearby, where I figured that it was at least available if needed. I made sure to go to the range at least monthly to improve on my handling & trigger skills, & become more comfortable with my weapons' operation. Sometime during the fall I purchased an affordable Bianchi IWB clip-on (Professional 100) & soon after made the decision to carry in & around the home full-time, because you never truly know if you'll have time to get to a weapon when you need it - but I still didn't feel completely safe keeping a round chambered.

    After a year of much thought & contemplation, I recently took the required training & applied for my permit to carry. During that year I've spent many (many) hours at the range, I've transferred my weapons from the storage safe to my at-ready safe & holster multiple times a day - clearing the weapons each time I did so, kept them clean & in working order, & throughout have not made the mistake of putting finger on trigger when it wasn't called for.

    We do not have children of our own & my weapon is concealed (holstered) on me or secured. I have now come to the conclusion that the extra second needed to chamber a round is no longer reasonable. When my permit hits my mailbox & I start carrying full-time, I will trust myself to do what I feel is right for me & my state of preparedness. My weapons will be at the ready...with a round chambered.
    Last edited by ArkhmAsylm; May 27th, 2011 at 05:45 PM. Reason: * tweaks *
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    My only advice to you is to take a force on force class. Let us know how it went drawing and trying to chamber a round under duress with an attacker closing. I think you will wake up and see the error of your ways with experience more than you ever will with hundreds on this forum trying to tell you so.
    Old School likes this.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    You guys either don't get it or can't read, it's not about me - it's about people who choose to carry unchambered. Thanks for all the advice, information and continued sarcasm on why YOU carry with one in the hole.

    This thread is already pointless as anyone who may have had any interest in this topic won't get past the first page thinking it's yet another debate thread - which is what I did NOT want, I made that very clear, or so I thought.

    When was the last time someone shot themselves in a restaurant or in their vehicle without one in the chamber?
    How many threads per week are there about someone having an AD/ND?
    How many of you think it's not possible to happen to you?
    Of those people, think again.

    Now - What are your chances of an AD/ND vs actually needing your gun in a SD situation?
    I don't know either, you play your odds - I (we) will play ours.

    Thank you.

    To answer some questions:

    Yes, I can rack my XDM with one hand.

    Yes, I practice doing so.

    I have a very smooth draw/rack motion that is quite effective.

    I shoot approximately 3-500 rounds per month, which is more than I can say for a lot of people who carry with one in the hole, and I'd be willing to bet that I'm actually faster than some of them.

    If I hear a bump in the night, I will unlock my gun from the safe and rack a round in the chamber, I won't wait for something to happen. Once it's safe I will drop the magazine and extract the round.

    If I am in a suspicious area, I will rack a round in the chamber. Once it's safe I will drop the magazine and extract the round.

    This is how I practice my routine, it's what I'm used to - it's how I'm comfortable.

    If I die because of that extra fraction of a second, I was meant to go I guess.

    My method resembles what this guy does, sit back and enjoy.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1R2jpi3Qwk
    baren likes this.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    For me, the question (one in pipe or NONE in pipe) can be answered very simply.

    1) Are you primarily concerned with maximum response speed? If so, then carry with one in pipe.

    2) Are you primarily concerned with safety/ND issues? If so, then carry with NONE in pipe.

    I am in the #2 category. I think the OP is right on the money.................
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array Adkjoe's Avatar
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    I don't know why your getting so testy. If that's what you do, great man have at it. I mean what did you expect would happen with a thread like this, people are going to debate that's the whole point (I think it's remained pretty darn civil actually, which is great). Are you trying to tell people it's safer to carry un-chambered, I mean what's your point? If you have good gun control and common sense it's just as safe to carry either way, it's a preference and if you feel comfortable racking your slide with one hand and then getting a good grip on the pistol while fighting someone off who's trying to stab you than your the man and your practice has paid off, if you practice it and it works for you I'm happy for you.

    Your getting the responses you don't want because I think most people would rather take the time working on other important skills rather than learner how to overcome a disadvantage you don't have to have in the first place. To each there own, just don't get fired up if you can't control every response. It sounds like you know what your doing so have fun, keep practising, and stay safe...
    Vermont does not issue Permit/Licenses to Carry a Concealed firearm. Vermont allows anyone
    who can legally own a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit of any kind.

  14. #29
    Member Array Takedown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    My method resembles what this guy does, sit back and enjoy.
    YouTube - ‪Condition 3 Quick-Draw Practice: Glock 26‬‏
    He is very well practiced for a perfect attack; someone directly in front of you 5 -10ft away. He is also drawing at his own leisure; taking a couple deep breaths and waiting until he's ready so that he gets a good time. I think what most people are stating so far is that the "perfect attack" is probably not going to happen and that it MAY just be more efficient to already BE ready instead of needing to GET ready.....
    HK: P30 v3
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  15. #30
    Member Array The Dark's Avatar
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    Not long after seeing a recent thread on this topic somewhere, I happened to watch the Collateral briefcase scene again ("you, homie...") I couldn't help but wonder how that would have gone with no round in the pipe and the off hand occupied controlling the BG's strong arm.

    To each their own.
    Bark'n likes this.
    "To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence." Friedrich Nietzsche

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