Carrying Unchambered - Practices, techniques, tips and tricks. - Page 2

Carrying Unchambered - Practices, techniques, tips and tricks.

This is a discussion on Carrying Unchambered - Practices, techniques, tips and tricks. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This will probably be pulled as off topic, but I just rack the slide. Whatever the scenario. I'm in a grocery store and I hear ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    This will probably be pulled as off topic, but I just rack the slide. Whatever the scenario. I'm in a grocery store and I hear shooting five aisles down. I draw the weapon and rack the slide. I'm at my desk and I hear yelling from another office and gunfire. I draw the weapon and rack the slide. I approach an ATM late at night and see that someone is in the shadows off to the side. I drive away and find another ATM inside a store that's open 24 hrs. I'm sitting at the computer talking to you guys. The gun is in front of me, but there isn't a round in the chamber. I can probably chamber a round by grabbing the top of the slide and slamming the butt against my knee if absolutely necessary, but I'm not going to practice it.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    I can probably chamber a round by grabbing the top of the slide and slamming the butt against my knee if absolutely necessary, but I'm not going to practice it.
    Hmmm, I actually like that idea...

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Hmmm, I actually like that idea...
    That's actually a very good idea. Do it in reverse. Let us know how that works. Sounds like it could be the most effective method yet.

  4. #19
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Of course, you could always just pull the trigger. The next chamber will have one in it.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array Devilsclaw's Avatar
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    Using two hands, just like RockBottom suggests, I can rack one in awful fast. Are we disqualified for using 2 hands? Draw with your strong hand, rack with weak hand. Threatening party now knows you mean business too.

  6. #21
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsclaw View Post
    Using two hands, just like RockBottom suggests, I can rack one in awful fast. Are we disqualified for using 2 hands? Draw with your strong hand, rack with weak hand. Threatening party now knows you mean business too.
    We're back at square one. The general consensus is that you might be taken by complete surprise and not be able to rack the slide in time to save your life. While trying to fight off your attacker, you are frantically trying to draw a weapon that has no round in the chamber. I suppose at that point, you yell "I have a gun!!" and club the obnoxious evildoer to death with it. Statistically it doesn't happen very often, but it can and does happen. Most of the time when there is trouble brewing, you are aware of it and have time to chamber a round. That's been my contention all along. Still, as long as you carry safely, your choice is yours.
    Last edited by RockBottom; May 31st, 2011 at 11:05 PM. Reason: overcoming censoring software

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    I can probably chamber a round by grabbing the top of the slide and slamming the butt against my knee if absolutely necessary, but I'm not going to practice it.
    Hmmm, I actually like that idea...
    That's actually a very good idea. Do it in reverse. Let us know how that works. Sounds like it could be the most effective method yet.
    Depends on the firearm.

    The XD/XDm, for example (and Thunder71, IIRC, you own an XDm, right?), won't be able to be manipulated that way.

    Similarly, for small pistols with "tight" slides, such as, say, a Ruger SR9c or a Kahr, that's also going to be an iffy proposition.

    Again, it's a matter of training and practice - one tenant of which is to know your chosen SD/HD firearm.

    And in that respect, in all honesty, RockBottom, if you can think of it, you should practice it. Sure, it's impossible to cover all scenarios, all possibilities, but we can work to achieve proficiency in what scenarios we have managed to think of, so that we can build our skill-sets in the hopes that, one day, if push does come to shove and we are faced with a setup which we have *not* thought of and prepared for, that our brain can still make the jump.

    Every time I think of something strange or weird, I'm popping in my snap-caps and trying it out.

  8. #23
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    Good point, the XDM requires the grip safety to be pressed.

  9. #24
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    Depends on the firearm.

    The XD/XDm, for example (and Thunder71, IIRC, you own an XDm, right?), won't be able to be manipulated that way.

    Similarly, for small pistols with "tight" slides, such as, say, a Ruger SR9c or a Kahr, that's also going to be an iffy proposition.

    Again, it's a matter of training and practice - one tenant of which is to know your chosen SD/HD firearm.

    And in that respect, in all honesty, RockBottom, if you can think of it, you should practice it. Sure, it's impossible to cover all scenarios, all possibilities, but we can work to achieve proficiency in what scenarios we have managed to think of, so that we can build our skill-sets in the hopes that, one day, if push does come to shove and we are faced with a setup which we have *not* thought of and prepared for, that our brain can still make the jump.
    Pumped with enough adrenaline, I'll rack it with my teeth if need be. This has been a lot of fun, but when you get into unique ways to rack a pistol, we're starting to border on the absurd.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsclaw View Post
    Using two hands, just like RockBottom suggests, I can rack one in awful fast. Are we disqualified for using 2 hands? Draw with your strong hand, rack with weak hand. Threatening party now knows you mean business too.
    Do you deal with a lot of violent people regularly?

    Just curious...

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    Pumped with enough adrenaline, I'll rack it with my teeth if need be. This has been a lot of fun, but when you get into unique ways to rack a pistol, we're starting to border on the absurd.
    ^ If it came to that, I'd do anything to survive and win the fight, too.

    But I don't think it's absurd at all.

    How few among us are born tactical wizards? How many of us know - instinctively - of a good way to draw and present, seated in the driver's seat, so that we don't sweep/flag our passengers and/or so as to not get hung up on the steering wheel or other vehicle controls? Is it instinctive to move your partner by the elbow/arm, instead of grabbing at his gun/hand, when you're trying stop his movements? How natural is it to have a flashlight in one hand and a pistol in the other, as we probe the darkness?

    I think that these situations are only as absurd as we my think that they are, but out there in the real world, things that are unexpected can and will happen.

    How many times have you been in a training class and the instructor calls out a question or brings up a scenario, and everyone - including you - stares at him or her with slacked jaws, going "huh? I didn't think of that!"

    I started "really shooting" this past November, late November - before that, I never owned a firearm, and I probably was at a range maybe once every two to four years, shooting for fun, with friends. Since that time, I've put somewhere around 20K rounds downrange (with close to 1500 of my chosen self-defense rounds) on just my primary HD and EDC-carry pistols, and I've logged about 40 hours of live-fire professional training, and I'm always seeking more (I'll actually be attending a course specifically on the topic of draw/holstering, as it applies to CCW/CHL, next week; yes, even something that mundane, I figure it's worth it to do it right).

    No, I don't know nearly enough, but at the same time, I'm also definitely not the last kid with the right answers in many of these classes - and yet, there's always one or two new things I learn, each time I take such lessons, and even as I talk to my friends and other "gun-acquaintances."

    Sure, these scenarios might verge on the ridiculous, but look at that last post that I quoted above: Thunder71, someone who owns a firearm which cannot be chambered in the manner described - and who is arguably more dependent on that technique than another - did *not* know that was an issue. For better or worse, it's from these hypothetical situations that we learn, and to rule one out as being possibly laughably ridiculous may well be to overlook a very real problem.

    I'm on this thread not because I don't carry with one in the chamber. I'm a "Condition I" type of guy: even the HD firearms stored in my quick-access safes are "Condition I," with their triggers protected by a holster.

    I'm here because I think that I may have something to learn from these guys and girls who carry without one in the pipe - in that their NEED to manipulate the slide may spur some new techniques, and that those new techniques may be of benefit to me, in some situations or another.

  12. #27
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    You can put the front sight and front slide edge against upturned heel and push. You have to guard against the short stroke, or the slide won't pick up the round from the mag. I have seen a video of a holdup where the victim's frenzied two hand short stroke cost him his life. In the panic, he forgot his chamber was empty. Loading and unloading under ideal conditions have caused many a police locker room mishap. Be very careful when handling dynamite and spring tension.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    I'm on this thread not because I don't carry with one in the chamber. I'm a "Condition I" type of guy: even the HD firearms stored in my quick-access safes are "Condition I," with their triggers protected by a holster.

    I'm here because I think that I may have something to learn from these guys and girls who carry without one in the pipe - in that their NEED to manipulate the slide may spur some new techniques, and that those new techniques may be of benefit to me, in some situations or another.
    Well said, and ditto.

    So in that vein... I've seen some talk about racking the slide by hooking the rear sight on their belt, etc. Is the rear sight, specifically the Glock rear sight, strong enough for practicing that? Seems like a good way to rack the slide in an emergency, but doing it a lot seems like a good way to break off the rear sight. lol But then, I may not know what I'm talking about. :)

  14. #29
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    ^ If it came to that, I'd do anything to survive and win the fight, too.

    But I don't think it's absurd at all.

    How few among us are born tactical wizards? How many of us know - instinctively - of a good way to draw and present, seated in the driver's seat, so that we don't sweep/flag our passengers and/or so as to not get hung up on the steering wheel or other vehicle controls? Is it instinctive to move your partner by the elbow/arm, instead of grabbing at his gun/hand, when you're trying stop his movements? How natural is it to have a flashlight in one hand and a pistol in the other, as we probe the darkness?

    I think that these situations are only as absurd as we my think that they are, but out there in the real world, things that are unexpected can and will happen.

    How many times have you been in a training class and the instructor calls out a question or brings up a scenario, and everyone - including you - stares at him or her with slacked jaws, going "huh? I didn't think of that!"

    I started "really shooting" this past November, late November - before that, I never owned a firearm, and I probably was at a range maybe once every two to four years, shooting for fun, with friends. Since that time, I've put somewhere around 20K rounds downrange (with close to 1500 of my chosen self-defense rounds) on just my primary HD and EDC-carry pistols, and I've logged about 40 hours of live-fire professional training, and I'm always seeking more (I'll actually be attending a course specifically on the topic of draw/holstering, as it applies to CCW/CHL, next week; yes, even something that mundane, I figure it's worth it to do it right).

    No, I don't know nearly enough, but at the same time, I'm also definitely not the last kid with the right answers in many of these classes - and yet, there's always one or two new things I learn, each time I take such lessons, and even as I talk to my friends and other "gun-acquaintances."

    Sure, these scenarios might verge on the ridiculous, but look at that last post that I quoted above: Thunder71, someone who owns a firearm which cannot be chambered in the manner described - and who is arguably more dependent on that technique than another - did *not* know that was an issue. For better or worse, it's from these hypothetical situations that we learn, and to rule one out as being possibly laughably ridiculous may well be to overlook a very real problem.

    I'm on this thread not because I don't carry with one in the chamber. I'm a "Condition I" type of guy: even the HD firearms stored in my quick-access safes are "Condition I," with their triggers protected by a holster.

    I'm here because I think that I may have something to learn from these guys and girls who carry without one in the pipe - in that their NEED to manipulate the slide may spur some new techniques, and that those new techniques may be of benefit to me, in some situations or another.
    I'm sorry. You and I probably differ in age and I'm sure that we certainly differ in life experiences. My biggest concern with carrying a firearm is not how to shoot someone with it, but the legal implications after I pull the trigger. Those are the scenarios that play through my head.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    I've never trained to draw and load my weapon because I carry loaded. We do, however, train regularly on manipulating our side arms with one hand - primarily reloads, but also clearing jams - in case we are limited to one hand due to injury. We use all of the methods of racking the slide that have already been discussed (behind the knee, off the boot heel, off the holster or belt, a table edge, etc) but they are all excrutiatingly slow and awkward, even when the slide is locked back. Heck, manipulating the mag release and getting a fresh mag off your belt and loaded can be very hard to do one handed (especially your weak hand). We work these drills on the range with live ammo and as difficult as they are to accomplish under controlled conditions I honestly cannot imagine trying to get my unloaded gun drawn and charged while fighting or under the pressure of an imminent attack. Add an inury that takes one hand out of the game and it would be nearly impossible. My training experience making empty guns work under pressure solidifies my position on carrying loaded guns vs unloaded.
    Old School likes this.

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