This is a discussion on Carrying Unchambered - Practices, techniques, tips and tricks. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This will probably be pulled as off topic, but I just rack the slide. Whatever the scenario. I'm in a grocery store and I hear ...
This will probably be pulled as off topic, but I just rack the slide. Whatever the scenario. I'm in a grocery store and I hear shooting five aisles down. I draw the weapon and rack the slide. I'm at my desk and I hear yelling from another office and gunfire. I draw the weapon and rack the slide. I approach an ATM late at night and see that someone is in the shadows off to the side. I drive away and find another ATM inside a store that's open 24 hrs. I'm sitting at the computer talking to you guys. The gun is in front of me, but there isn't a round in the chamber. I can probably chamber a round by grabbing the top of the slide and slamming the butt against my knee if absolutely necessary, but I'm not going to practice it.
Of course, you could always just pull the trigger. The next chamber will have one in it.
Using two hands, just like RockBottom suggests, I can rack one in awful fast. Are we disqualified for using 2 hands? Draw with your strong hand, rack with weak hand. Threatening party now knows you mean business too.
Last edited by RockBottom; May 31st, 2011 at 11:05 PM. Reason: overcoming censoring software
The XD/XDm, for example (and Thunder71, IIRC, you own an XDm, right?), won't be able to be manipulated that way.
Similarly, for small pistols with "tight" slides, such as, say, a Ruger SR9c or a Kahr, that's also going to be an iffy proposition.
Again, it's a matter of training and practice - one tenant of which is to know your chosen SD/HD firearm.
And in that respect, in all honesty, RockBottom, if you can think of it, you should practice it. Sure, it's impossible to cover all scenarios, all possibilities, but we can work to achieve proficiency in what scenarios we have managed to think of, so that we can build our skill-sets in the hopes that, one day, if push does come to shove and we are faced with a setup which we have *not* thought of and prepared for, that our brain can still make the jump.
Every time I think of something strange or weird, I'm popping in my snap-caps and trying it out.
Good point, the XDM requires the grip safety to be pressed.
But I don't think it's absurd at all.
How few among us are born tactical wizards? How many of us know - instinctively - of a good way to draw and present, seated in the driver's seat, so that we don't sweep/flag our passengers and/or so as to not get hung up on the steering wheel or other vehicle controls? Is it instinctive to move your partner by the elbow/arm, instead of grabbing at his gun/hand, when you're trying stop his movements? How natural is it to have a flashlight in one hand and a pistol in the other, as we probe the darkness?
I think that these situations are only as absurd as we my think that they are, but out there in the real world, things that are unexpected can and will happen.
How many times have you been in a training class and the instructor calls out a question or brings up a scenario, and everyone - including you - stares at him or her with slacked jaws, going "huh? I didn't think of that!"
I started "really shooting" this past November, late November - before that, I never owned a firearm, and I probably was at a range maybe once every two to four years, shooting for fun, with friends. Since that time, I've put somewhere around 20K rounds downrange (with close to 1500 of my chosen self-defense rounds) on just my primary HD and EDC-carry pistols, and I've logged about 40 hours of live-fire professional training, and I'm always seeking more (I'll actually be attending a course specifically on the topic of draw/holstering, as it applies to CCW/CHL, next week; yes, even something that mundane, I figure it's worth it to do it right).
No, I don't know nearly enough, but at the same time, I'm also definitely not the last kid with the right answers in many of these classes - and yet, there's always one or two new things I learn, each time I take such lessons, and even as I talk to my friends and other "gun-acquaintances."
Sure, these scenarios might verge on the ridiculous, but look at that last post that I quoted above: Thunder71, someone who owns a firearm which cannot be chambered in the manner described - and who is arguably more dependent on that technique than another - did *not* know that was an issue. For better or worse, it's from these hypothetical situations that we learn, and to rule one out as being possibly laughably ridiculous may well be to overlook a very real problem.
I'm on this thread not because I don't carry with one in the chamber. I'm a "Condition I" type of guy: even the HD firearms stored in my quick-access safes are "Condition I," with their triggers protected by a holster.
I'm here because I think that I may have something to learn from these guys and girls who carry without one in the pipe - in that their NEED to manipulate the slide may spur some new techniques, and that those new techniques may be of benefit to me, in some situations or another.
You can put the front sight and front slide edge against upturned heel and push. You have to guard against the short stroke, or the slide won't pick up the round from the mag. I have seen a video of a holdup where the victim's frenzied two hand short stroke cost him his life. In the panic, he forgot his chamber was empty. Loading and unloading under ideal conditions have caused many a police locker room mishap. Be very careful when handling dynamite and spring tension.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
So in that vein... I've seen some talk about racking the slide by hooking the rear sight on their belt, etc. Is the rear sight, specifically the Glock rear sight, strong enough for practicing that? Seems like a good way to rack the slide in an emergency, but doing it a lot seems like a good way to break off the rear sight. lol But then, I may not know what I'm talking about. :)
I've never trained to draw and load my weapon because I carry loaded. We do, however, train regularly on manipulating our side arms with one hand - primarily reloads, but also clearing jams - in case we are limited to one hand due to injury. We use all of the methods of racking the slide that have already been discussed (behind the knee, off the boot heel, off the holster or belt, a table edge, etc) but they are all excrutiatingly slow and awkward, even when the slide is locked back. Heck, manipulating the mag release and getting a fresh mag off your belt and loaded can be very hard to do one handed (especially your weak hand). We work these drills on the range with live ammo and as difficult as they are to accomplish under controlled conditions I honestly cannot imagine trying to get my unloaded gun drawn and charged while fighting or under the pressure of an imminent attack. Add an inury that takes one hand out of the game and it would be nearly impossible. My training experience making empty guns work under pressure solidifies my position on carrying loaded guns vs unloaded.