Why do women recommend against carry for a battered woman?

This is a discussion on Why do women recommend against carry for a battered woman? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Recently, this story came to my attention (ignore the "shop talk" at the beginning; it's not relevant here, and is the post author's attempt to ...

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Thread: Why do women recommend against carry for a battered woman?

  1. #1
    Member Array Buran's Avatar
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    Why do women recommend against carry for a battered woman?

    Recently, this story came to my attention (ignore the "shop talk" at the beginning; it's not relevant here, and is the post author's attempt to establish context for the community the post is in and doesn't need explanation on this forum).

    It's a tale of a battered woman's friend trying to get help for her. The woman in question is being abused by someone who doesn't like the fact that she associates with other people and does things she likes with them. The abuser even goes so far as to abuse those people in (I guess) an attempt to make abandoning the victim the simplest path to finding peace.

    He asks for suggestions, and community members give them. I put in my piece and in addition to echoing suggestions that the authorities in the woman's area be called in, I suggested that the victim obtain a gun and be trained in its use and be licensed to carry it if that is legal in her state if she's in the US (the post does not give location). I also suggested that a restraining order be taken out, not because I think it will do any good but because it would be one more charge that can be filed against the abuser if he is caught.

    And to my surprise several others in the community, which I guess are women due to the nature of the community (though I'm not 100% sure of that, of course) said that the victim should not be armed because the abuser could use the weapon against her, get angrier, and make the situation worse. But that doesn't make sense to me -- given the descriptions of what this guy does to this woman, he's going to keep beating her and getting worse and worse until, possibly, he kills her.

    Why would women stand up against the possibility of another woman defending herself against an attacker? I've thankfully never been in that situation and only recently have been a gun owner (we have several in my house), but even before then, I would never tell another woman to not protect herself against potential death...

    As for the woman in the article, I hope she gets out, but sadly the only ones who can do anything (other than call the cops and hope for the best) are ... herself and herself.

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    The media feeds everyone this line almost constantly. Also, depending on where you live, your local police will say the same thing. So few people now have access to or are trained to use firearms while growing up. So people accept the lies as truth.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I would say primarily fear, lack of confidence and lack of knowledge. Victims of abuse often view the abuser as superman, against who, no means will be successful.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Also, those who are abused may be psychologically traumatized, and see a life-threatening situation where one does not exist.

    I don't think this is more likely than the person needing to defend themselves against their abuser, but the medical community at large are anti-s, and will use any reason at all to tell people to stay away from guns.

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    I'm not going to speak for all women on this issue (obviously) as women have as many differing opinions as anyone else. That being said women do (obviously) have a better insight to other women sometimes and there can be several reasons as to why they would not recommend a gun to a battered female.

    1. The irrational fear of guns is still prevalent in our society. Of course there will be people who will not believe that a gun can do anyone any good in any situation and will never recommend it, period.

    2. Battered women have a type. It's not 100% accurate across the board but it's there. Ask any police officer what the worst call to go to is and he'll likely tell you it's a domestic call. One minutes you have a woman who's screaming, "He hit me. I hate him. Get him out of here." The next minute she's attacking the police officer for "attacking her man." Call it the stockholm syndrome or whatever you will but it happens. It happens more to women because women are more often victims of violent abuse than men but it can happen to both men and women. They are beaten, told they deserve it, that they are still loved and if they just did better they wouldn't have to be beaten and after a while they start to believe it and their allegiance, definition, personality, control, everything, is given over to the abuser. They don't like the abuse but they think if they just obeyed better, did their hair better, cooked better, did EXACTLY as they were told, were more loyal, the abuse would stop and so they give themselves over COMPLETELY to their abuser and it makes theme extraordinarily dependent (which, of course, is what the abuser wants).

    Honestly, I wouldn't want a woman like that to have a gun either. Unless SHE made the conscious decision to get out and that she was worth better than what she was getting and unless she already took steps to gain her independence from her abuser she very well could literally hand her gun right over to the abuser on command or even shoot those trying to come to her rescue for "attacking her man."

    Having previously been on the slipper slop of that kind of a relationship before I'm not just whistling dixie either.

    3. We women know we aren't that strong. We know we don't have the upper body strength of a man and especially a man who has already demonstrated he's not above hitting and man-handling a woman. I'm darned grateful I have a wonderful husband because if it ever came down to a close quarters battle between the two of us you'd be a fool to put your money on me. Not to mention there are a LOT more emotions there than if you were asked to defend yourself against a stranger or even a distant relative. This is someone you love and who is supposed to love you. There is GOING to be hesitation and, as stated, if you are fighting someone who has demonstrated that he will NOT hesitate to use violence it is very conceivable that he would be able to get a gun away from her and use it against her.

    I'm not saying she should or shouldn't have a gun. That is a deeply personal decision that only she can make once she has decided that she is ready to lethally defend herself from THAT particular man.

    I once sold a gun to a woman with a baby whose ex-husband was getting out of prison and she feared he would come looking for her or their child. I asked her very plainly if she was ready to use that gun in self defense against the man she once loved enough to have a child with and without hesitation she said, "He tries to come near me again and the first thing he'll see is this gun."

    I didn't have a problem selling her that gun. She seemed pretty ready and determined to defend herself with it. Of course I hope she never has to use it and of course we'll never know what it would be like in that final moment. As stated, if I had to go up against JD it would be the hardest fight of my life and I would likely make fatal errors based solely on the fact that I love him so very much and trust him with my life. If that trust were broken and violence entered our relationship it would be easier to defend against him but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

    I have a few "battered women" family members and friends and they ALWAYS believe they are the cause of it while it's happening which makes them very vulnerable to being talked down and out of using any strong form of self defense. It takes them being FAR removed from the situation or a severe wake up to see it for what it really is.

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    Thank you for your input. Much appreciated. I truly hope that the comments that are being posted on that article are indeed passed on to this woman and she realizes that she has the power to make the abuse stop, and gets out of that place before she gets hurt any more. I'm fully aware of "stockholm syndrome" and am hoping that the overwhelming prevailing attitude of "Get out and save yourself" from other women, some of whom were themselves abused, inspires her to find help and shelter. (I cannot, of course, say which of the other commenters is the abused friend I referred to in my post there).

    I do know that there was a somewhat-similar case in which a poster asked for help in how to balance her Warcraft-home life and as questions were asked and answered, it came out that she too was being abused by a man who didn't like the fact that she was gaming with real people that could be competition for her affections. Fortunately, the community was able to help her see that she had to get out of that situation -- and she did. That may well have saved her life.

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    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    A woman cannot be abused without her permission. She may get beat up once, but as soon as she goes back, she has given her consent for the abuse (psychological, physical, verbal, etc.) to continue. I think that is one reason abused women think that protecting themselves is futile. How can you protect yourself if you keep going back to the "lions den"??
    That mentality needs to be changed before protecting themself is an option.
    Why society does not support giving abused women the tools (psychological & physical) they need to stop abuse is a mystery to me.
    Note: Obviously there are many in our society that do understand this and truly help abused victims.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

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    Everyone battered woman I knew repeatedly returned to her abuser because she "loved" him. Symptomatic of a type of chatacter? i don't know. But that was the pattern they all followed. Apparently, for them, love is blind, and painless.

    Some people will always advise against carrying a firearm, no matter what the threat. There are many avenues a battered woamm can take to relieve herself of this issue--and she should follow them all.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    I'm surprised (pleasantly) by the responses to this issue. With 30 years in Parole/Probation I can attest that these situations rarely turn out well: LEOs and POs all are faced with the issue that the controlling partner "hasn't done anything, yet", and when he (usually, not always, a he) does take some action; it's a little too late. The abused usually has some culpability in the situation but almost always has little power to stop it. This woman needs the support of professionals like a battered woman's shelter or outreach program, not her friends or the internet community. The predator in this woman's life wants to control her, her activities and her friends; he wants to be the center of her universe; he wants power over her.

    I think a gun should be her last resort; she has to be willing to take his life and, possibly, risk the rest of her own.

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    Member Array tunes's Avatar
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    The truth is that to end the abuse the woman needs to be willing to leave the situation and get help from family/friends/resources. That is the best way. For some a gun might be necessary/helpful, for others it might not.

    Some would also be anti-gun in any situation, which is foolish, but it might make sense here given the psychological nature of abusive relationships.

    Firearms are truly the great equalizer as long as the person carrying is willing/able to use it in a necessary situation. Any recommendation I would give regarding the purchase of a firearm would come with caveats. Essentially: "think through whether you would be willing to use this in a necessary situation. I'm not talking about shooting someone in the leg or scaring them, but really using it to shoot center mass for the best chance of a quick stop."

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPO 15 View Post
    This woman needs the support of professionals like a battered woman's shelter or outreach program, not her friends or the internet community. The predator in this woman's life wants to control her, her activities and her friends; he wants to be the center of her universe; he wants power over her.
    I know she does -- that's why I and others are trying to get her to go to one and get help. To get started on that, though, she needs encouragement from those she knows and sees every day (or several times a week or whatever the case may be). It has to start somewhere, and women dealing with things like this are so intimidated (or think they love the abusers) that I doubt she'll seek the help on her own without others she trusts telling her what the options are.

    And, certainly, the friends are suffering abuse, too -- that's quite clear to me from the posting. What a creep!

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If she isn't going to call LEO's and file a complaint/Arrest the abuser,what makes you think she will use a gun against him,most women in abusive situations make excuses for the abuser and actually over time start thinking it's their fault,until they get tired of the abuse and become strong enough to leave and stand up against the abuser I don't see where a gun would do much good,there are xases where an abused woman waited til the abuser went to sleep and then got a gun and shot them,only to be charged with Murder
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    Because there are lots of Moonbats in this world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I'm not going to speak for all women on this issue (obviously) as women have as many differing opinions as anyone else. That being said women do (obviously) have a better insight to other women sometimes and there can be several reasons as to why they would not recommend a gun to a battered female.

    1. The irrational fear of guns is still prevalent in our society. Of course there will be people who will not believe that a gun can do anyone any good in any situation and will never recommend it, period.

    2. Battered women have a type. It's not 100% accurate across the board but it's there. Ask any police officer what the worst call to go to is and he'll likely tell you it's a domestic call. One minutes you have a woman who's screaming, "He hit me. I hate him. Get him out of here." The next minute she's attacking the police officer for "attacking her man." Call it the stockholm syndrome or whatever you will but it happens. It happens more to women because women are more often victims of violent abuse than men but it can happen to both men and women. They are beaten, told they deserve it, that they are still loved and if they just did better they wouldn't have to be beaten and after a while they start to believe it and their allegiance, definition, personality, control, everything, is given over to the abuser. They don't like the abuse but they think if they just obeyed better, did their hair better, cooked better, did EXACTLY as they were told, were more loyal, the abuse would stop and so they give themselves over COMPLETELY to their abuser and it makes theme extraordinarily dependent (which, of course, is what the abuser wants).

    Honestly, I wouldn't want a woman like that to have a gun either. Unless SHE made the conscious decision to get out and that she was worth better than what she was getting and unless she already took steps to gain her independence from her abuser she very well could literally hand her gun right over to the abuser on command or even shoot those trying to come to her rescue for "attacking her man."

    Having previously been on the slipper slop of that kind of a relationship before I'm not just whistling dixie either.

    3. We women know we aren't that strong. We know we don't have the upper body strength of a man and especially a man who has already demonstrated he's not above hitting and man-handling a woman. I'm darned grateful I have a wonderful husband because if it ever came down to a close quarters battle between the two of us you'd be a fool to put your money on me. Not to mention there are a LOT more emotions there than if you were asked to defend yourself against a stranger or even a distant relative. This is someone you love and who is supposed to love you. There is GOING to be hesitation and, as stated, if you are fighting someone who has demonstrated that he will NOT hesitate to use violence it is very conceivable that he would be able to get a gun away from her and use it against her.

    I'm not saying she should or shouldn't have a gun. That is a deeply personal decision that only she can make once she has decided that she is ready to lethally defend herself from THAT particular man.

    I once sold a gun to a woman with a baby whose ex-husband was getting out of prison and she feared he would come looking for her or their child. I asked her very plainly if she was ready to use that gun in self defense against the man she once loved enough to have a child with and without hesitation she said, "He tries to come near me again and the first thing he'll see is this gun."

    I didn't have a problem selling her that gun. She seemed pretty ready and determined to defend herself with it. Of course I hope she never has to use it and of course we'll never know what it would be like in that final moment. As stated, if I had to go up against JD it would be the hardest fight of my life and I would likely make fatal errors based solely on the fact that I love him so very much and trust him with my life. If that trust were broken and violence entered our relationship it would be easier to defend against him but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

    I have a few "battered women" family members and friends and they ALWAYS believe they are the cause of it while it's happening which makes them very vulnerable to being talked down and out of using any strong form of self defense. It takes them being FAR removed from the situation or a severe wake up to see it for what it really is.
    +1 on what Lima said.
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    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    As a friend of mine once said of the Nicole Simpson and friend killings; itís a good thing she didnít have a gun OJ could have taken it from her and killed her with it!

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