MI: Carrying Concealed w/o Permit at home & business

This is a discussion on MI: Carrying Concealed w/o Permit at home & business within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by KindOfBlue You're correct on alcohol- I believe it's only with owner's permission. We do not sell alcohol though, so thankfully I don't ...

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Thread: MI: Carrying Concealed w/o Permit at home & business

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    You're correct on alcohol- I believe it's only with owner's permission. We do not sell alcohol though, so thankfully I don't have to deal with that mess. I'll check out MI Open Carry!


    Where doe's it state that an owner or employee with permission can't carry in a business that sells alcohol in Michigan?
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    I think the law allowing concealed carry in a business without a permit applies to the owner only. See Michigan Public Act 328 section 750.227. It says :
    2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

    I take that to mean owned or rented, not an employee, and NOT just with the owners permission. No where does it say anything about land you do not own, but have owners permission.

    As far as alcohol sales that wouldn't be a problem at a gas station because the restriction is for establishments that sell for consumption "on the premises":
    See Act 327 of 1972 Section 28.425:

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises.

    This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business.

    This may be where the OP got confused about employee's being able to carry concealed in a business.

  4. #18
    TVJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    Wow, thank you for the in-depth response. I really appreciate the time you took to respond to my questions. I'm getting a call back from a lawyer's office I contacted tomorrow morning, and I'll definitely bring up the CC w/ permission that you mentioned. This would be ideal- my boss said that I could conceal carry. I just don't want to break any firearm laws. I'll definitely post here once I talk to the lawyer and let you know what he says.

    Well done contacting an attorney.

    Well done quoting the law in your OP and asking for help.

    You do your homework.

    You take personal responsibility.

    You show maturity.

    Nicely done.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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  5. #19
    Member Array skunkworks's Avatar
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    Open carry in an establishment licensed to sell alcohol is a no-no w/out a CPL. The part about consumption is only for those concealed carrying under a CPL (no CC in a bar).
    Concealed carry is allowed if you are providing security. Might be a stretch, but if the owner/manager allowed it for the sake of "security" you might be fine.
    Just read up on the Michigan Gun Laws including but not limited to the CPL laws. Since you don't have a CPL, that entire section does not apply.
    I'll keep my freedom, my liberty, and my guns. You can keep the change.

  6. #20
    Member Array cmycek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    Thought about that after I made it, lol...it's the name of my favorite record, a Miles Davis jazz album! I appreciate the concern!
    Excellent album, one of my favorites too! Makes sense now!
    Exercise your 2nd amendment rights....not doing so jeopardizes that right for everyone.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    Where doe's it state that an owner or employee with permission can't carry in a business that sells alcohol in Michigan?
    Here is a Michigan State Police bulletin that says that and also explains the restrictions, or lack of, concerning pistol free zones and CPL's.
    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf

    See page two, right hand column, third full paragraph. The ban against concealed carry does not apply to owner or employee, this applies to bar only, so I don't think the OP's request about gas station employees allows for concealed carry even with the owners permission, you have to have a CPL to carry concealed.

  8. #22
    Member Array KindOfBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVJ View Post
    Well done contacting an attorney.

    Well done quoting the law in your OP and asking for help.

    You do your homework.

    You take personal responsibility.

    You show maturity.

    Nicely done.
    Thank you very much sir. I'd imagine I'm on the younger side of membership here, but I'm very happy to have information & friendly people at my fingertips. I was bracing for comments about my age and my firearm purchase...very relived this isn't the case.
    Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Ok I'm not a Lawyer... Like Oneshot said I belong to Michigan Open Carry (MOC) our web site is Michigan Open Carry, Inc. | Nothing to hide! How ever Skysoldier29 is not correct. He doesn't Live in Michigan and might not know enough about these types of laws...

    As we (MOC) have done many free law seminars I know 100% that YOU cannot conceal on ANY property Private or public property with out a CPL... (exception ANY Property that you OWN your name is ON the paper work then you may conceal) You cannot get someone's permission to conceal if you DON'T have a CPL...

    You may not OC in you car or on ANY motorized vehicle it is consider concealed
    You may not Open Carry A gun into ANY place that has a LIQUOR LICENSE (that means Walmart, Meijier, NOT just selling Alcohol just having the license to sell, it also includes beer because to sell beer you need a liquor license.)

    Oneshot was incorrect about this part. You can Open Carry with a CPL into ANY place that sells alcohol (yes even bars ladies and gents don't agree, look it up or call a good lawyer)...

    You may NOT Conceal in a place that makes 51% or more of their income on Alcohol, since a gas station makes most of it's money on gas you can conceal WITH a CPL even if they sell Alcohol.

    Any place (besides a post office) listed as a "PISTOL FREE ZONE" in Michigan maybe entered with your gun IF you have a CPL and are Open Carrying. We have had some members visit others in the hospital Open Carrying. Now I'm not saying you won't get harassed, or the LEO's called on you, but You are always responsible to know the laws and it is a good Idea to carry a voice recorder the cops around here love to try anyway possible to give you a ticket.

    As for you at work. If the boss says No OC, then you will have to wait until you can get a CPL and conceal.. Now I have not yet learned anything about if the boss were to leave a gun in the counter or behind it, how that works. That gets more sicky.. call a lawyer.

    Post message me and I'll try to get you set up with a seminar close to you they are fun and even everyone with a CPL would get some good firearm laws.

    Once again I'm not a lawyer. I'm just repeating what I have learned. don't shoot the messenger... work place stuff can be a little different sometimes.
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  10. #24
    Member Array KindOfBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    Ok I'm not a Lawyer... Like Oneshot said I belong to Michigan Open Carry (MOC) our web site is Michigan Open Carry, Inc. | Nothing to hide! How ever Skysoldier29 is not correct. He doesn't Live in Michigan and might not know enough about these types of laws...

    As we (MOC) have done many free law seminars I know 100% that YOU cannot conceal on ANY property Private or public property with out a CPL... (exception ANY Property that you OWN your name is ON the paper work then you may conceal) You cannot get someone's permission to conceal if you DON'T have a CPL...

    You may not OC in you car or on ANY motorized vehicle it is consider concealed
    You may not Open Carry A gun into ANY place that has a LIQUOR LICENSE (that means Walmart, Meijier, NOT just selling Alcohol just having the license to sell, it also includes beer because to sell beer you need a liquor license.)

    Oneshot was incorrect about this part. You can Open Carry with a CPL into ANY place that sells alcohol (yes even bars ladies and gents don't agree, look it up or call a good lawyer)...

    You may NOT Conceal in a place that makes 51% or more of their income on Alcohol, since a gas station makes most of it's money on gas you can conceal WITH a CPL even if they sell Alcohol.

    Any place (besides a post office) listed as a "PISTOL FREE ZONE" in Michigan maybe entered with your gun IF you have a CPL and are Open Carrying. We have had some members visit others in the hospital Open Carrying. Now I'm not saying you won't get harassed, or the LEO's called on you, but You are always responsible to know the laws and it is a good Idea to carry a voice recorder the cops around here love to try anyway possible to give you a ticket.

    As for you at work. If the boss says No OC, then you will have to wait until you can get a CPL and conceal.. Now I have not yet learned anything about if the boss were to leave a gun in the counter or behind it, how that works. That gets more sicky.. call a lawyer.

    Post message me and I'll try to get you set up with a seminar close to you they are fun and even everyone with a CPL would get some good firearm laws.

    Once again I'm not a lawyer. I'm just repeating what I have learned. don't shoot the messenger... work place stuff can be a little different sometimes.
    This is exactly what I needed to hear! Thank you for the info. I'll be contacting you about seminars in our area.
    Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!

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