Carrying Where it is not "authorized", but not illegal...

This is a discussion on Carrying Where it is not "authorized", but not illegal... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It's a easy question to answer for me, If it's not illegal, I'm carrying. If caught and terminated, oh well, I was looking for a ...

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Thread: Carrying Where it is not "authorized", but not illegal...

  1. #76
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    It's a easy question to answer for me, If it's not illegal, I'm carrying. If caught and terminated, oh well, I was looking for a job when I found that one; and being a expert in my field I'll find another.
    ZTF Hitman likes this.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

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  3. #77
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    You can justify anything you want . . . in your mind. But your mind doesn't sign your paycheck.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  4. #78
    Member Array Wynn's Avatar
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    Cant carry at work, but Ive always got a knife on me.

  5. #79
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    No, no you can't. There are several things that most folks won't or can't justify myself included. One being Murder, another being Rape along with about a thousand more. Carrying concealed into the work place is not as devastating as some try to let on to.... What it boils down to is simply this, are you a good guy, or are you a bad guy with evil intentions. That's the real question behind the intention and the act. Its none of anyones business what another law abiding citizen is doing provided it's not illegal, plain and simple.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  6. #80
    Member Array ZTF Hitman's Avatar
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    There is no "right answer" here.....Only what you,as an individual, are willing to do to a: exercise your rights, and b: protect yourself. I will go with 'gottabkiddin's angle. If it's legal, I'm doin it. I will take all avenues necessary to protect myself, and those around me.

  7. #81
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    It's not the same... Speeding is against the law, while carrying on private property is not (in my state).

    If you're going to tout your critical thinking skills, then tell me what right is being violated?
    So is it moral to disobey the wishes of the property owner just because it is legal to do so? Just because the state doesn't give a sign any legal ability, the property owner can ban these items by denying anyone with said items the ability to legally stay on the property. Just because the sign doesn't have the same legal powers doesn't mean the property owner does not have the right to decree what is and is not allowed on their property.

  8. #82
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZTF Hitman View Post
    If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound???

    Carry CONCEALED....carry wisely, and (IMO) if you are not breaking the law, you are not doing anything wrong.
    Yes you are. If you agree to be disarmed and come to work armed because you legally can, then you have lied to your employer. As far as I know, lying is wrong. In my opinion it should be fraud as you are in an agreement to perform certain functions and services for your employer under certain conditions such as being disarmed, and disobeying them knowingly while collecting a paycheck is defrauding the company. Is it wrong to lie to someone?

  9. #83
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tala View Post
    Sure, I'll start my own business. Great idea right after I get done paying off these student loans. I gotta work to eat, but I also gotta LIVE to eat. YOUR job may not be that dangerous. For example my dad works for a state office and as far as I know no one has ever been killed at his office. While no one has been killed in MY particular store YET (we've only been there a year), just google shooting + pizza and see how many turn up, thousands I'm sure. Google the Benton AR Pizza Hut + robbery ---- we're practically across the street from them. Google Summit Bank Benton AR + robbery, it's practically in our parking lot and us managers walk the deposit up there every morning ---- local PD is still looking for the most recent robber. Maybe I should look for a safer job.....and I'm sure I won't be working pizza my whole life, but for now it's the only thing paying the bills.
    And apparently you MIS-READ my post. The franchise policy may be anti-gun, but the private PROPERTY OWNER is VERY pro-carry/pro-gun. If he asks me to leave, I will.
    So because there was a robbery in your town, it means that it is unsafe? I am just saying that it is dishonest and wrong to do so. I think you should quit and look for a safer job. I delivered pizzas in Chicago and I was not carrying a gun but it is irrelevant. You should talk to the franchise and have them tell corporate that they cannot meet the agreed upon terms because you wish to carry a gun. Just because someone committed a crime in your town does not make you right for lying to someone, does it? I am sorry but I would look for a new place of employment if carrying a gun is so important it would cause me to have to lie to do so.

  10. #84
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    So is it moral to disobey the wishes of the property owner just because it is legal to do so? Just because the state doesn't give a sign any legal ability, the property owner can ban these items by denying anyone with said items the ability to legally stay on the property. Just because the sign doesn't have the same legal powers doesn't mean the property owner does not have the right to decree what is and is not allowed on their property.
    Y'all keep asserting that a property owner has a right to decree their every whim with a "So let it be written... so let it be done!" and a bang on the gong. You are correct in that they can, in fact, snap their fingers, click their heels, and make a solemn pronouncement -- it just does not have any effect at all in my state. I don't know how to say it any more plainly than that. There are states in which signs do have a legal effect, and there may well be states in which finger-snapping decrees have a legal effect... JUST NOT MINE.

    This is important to understand and remember: If the decree has no legal effect, it's not a right. There is no 'right to decree', here, nor a 'right to 3 genie wishes', 'right to spaghetti and meatballs' or any other fantasy right that you can dream up. A property owner must take actions such as screening people who enter his property, or 'trespassing' people that he wishes to leave. If they don't leave, he can call the police and have them removed. THAT is what he has a right to do.

    Do you think it's moral to move to a state, whose society has already agreed on laws, rights and a way of doing things, and demand to play by a different set of rules? You can't be bothered to learn your rights and duties -- you want everyone else to surrender their rights, to your convenience. My life is valuable and worth protecting. The right to keep and bear arms is a very important right, and I do not surrender it for the convenience of nitwits.
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  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    So is it moral to disobey the wishes of the property owner just because it is legal to do so?
    Here's the deal. It is not a moral conflict.

    What is immoral, is a person refusing another person the right of self defense, and the ability to employ lethal force if that is what is necessary.

    If I were in your home, you would have no idea that I was armed. And you'd have no reason to be afraid because no harm would come to you or anyone in your house. And you (not knowing I had a weapon), would be totally at ease with my presence because I harbor no ill will to anyone. Also, there is no way I would lose control of my weapon because my weapons are that secure.

    Now if for some reason, I'm in your home, and horror of all horrors... That home invasion which you believe will always happen to the next guy and not at your home happens... Well, I'm defending myself. I'm not waiting for you to get finished using the bathroom and then go running to your secret hiding place to retrieve your weapon in order to try and protect me as a guest in your home. I'm taking care of it now.
    gottabkiddin and ZTF Hitman like this.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  12. #86
    Member Array safetyguy60's Avatar
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    I bought a new granite counter top for the wife that cost me over 4 grand. Two places I went to had signs that said no forearms allowed. I obeyed their signs. The one place I went to had no signs. Come to find out the owner is a NRA Life member. After the job completed I sent copies of the job and the paid in full receipt to the other two that had the signs. I told them they had been highly recommended and the BBB agreed. I told them it was a shame they lost my business because of a sign. I also directed them to the site where I placed a glowing review of the work the company with out a sign got from me. One of the companies replied that their sign was now gone and if I had any further need of their services to call.

    Oh well!
    10thmtn likes this.
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  13. #87
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Here's the deal. It is not a moral conflict.

    What is immoral, is a person refusing another person the right of self defense, and the ability to employ lethal force if that is what is necessary.
    why do some of you think that your right to carry a gun trumps someone's right to control activities on THEIR property?
    refusing to comply with simple requests and thinking your rights over rule someone else's rights is what is immoral

  14. #88
    Member Array ZTF Hitman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Here's the deal. It is not a moral conflict.

    What is immoral, is a person refusing another person the right of self defense, and the ability to employ lethal force if that is what is necessary.

    If I were in your home, you would have no idea that I was armed. And you'd have no reason to be afraid because no harm would come to you or anyone in your house. And you (not knowing I had a weapon), would be totally at ease with my presence because I harbor no ill will to anyone. Also, there is no way I would lose control of my weapon because my weapons are that secure.

    Now if for some reason, I'm in your home, and horror of all horrors... That home invasion which you believe will always happen to the next guy and not at your home happens... Well, I'm defending myself. I'm not waiting for you to get finished using the bathroom and then go running to your secret hiding place to retrieve your weapon in order to try and protect me as a guest in your home. I'm taking care of it now.

    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    why do some of you think that your right to carry a gun trumps someone's right to control activities on THEIR property?
    refusing to comply with simple requests and thinking your rights over rule someone else's rights is what is immoral
    Well said, Bark'n. There seem to be two different mind-sets here. One, who is a live-and-let live sort, who doesn't feel the need to impose restrictions on free individuals (that is what we are, right?) and two, those who feel like the government, and have the complex that 'my idea on this is better than yours'. I (and I stress the word I) WILL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY OWN SAFETY AND SECURITY, AND NEVER LEAVE THAT IN THE HANDS OF OTHERS. Now, apvbguy, why do you feel any American has the right to deny that fundamental, and basic right to any other American. You come into my house, I will welcome you, and NOT ask if you are armed. My mentality, is that anyone in my house is welcome, and quite frankly, more guns in the hands of good citizens is a GOOD thing.

  15. #89
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    Not sure how I would address that myself although my gut says ‘no’ on my person but ‘yes’ in the car. Things that come to mind are, location of employer (risk factor) and consequence to discovery by co-workers, etc. If it’s a good job with tenure I wouldn’t want to compromise it.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    why do some of you think that your right to carry a gun trumps someone's right to control activities on THEIR property?
    refusing to comply with simple requests and thinking your rights over rule someone else's rights is what is immoral
    Actually, the issue never comes up. I've never been in anyone's house who had a sign on their door which says, no guns allowed. Nor does anyone I know, ask everyone who comes to their house if they are carrying a gun and that guns are not allowed in their home. (Do you do that to everyone who comes over?) I didn't think so. Besides, I thought you were one of the "good guys, like me?" I didn't know you were an anti-gunner disguised as a person who carries a gun.

    As far as patronizing businesses with no gun signs and intentionally violating a posted business. Hey, if I happen to see a sign on a business or restaurant stating they only like anti-gunners money, then I will certainly oblige them and spend my greenbacks elsewhere.

    However, in my state signs don't have much meaning, therefore, I don't spend a whole lot of time looking for little signs before I enter places. If I don't see a sign on a business, I don't freak out and wet my pants. I carry a gun daily, it's a normal part of life... I don't consciously go around with my chest pumped up because I carry a gun. It's such a normal part of life, I don't even realize I have a gun most of the time and I'm certainly not so much aware of it, that I have to stop and take note if the auto parts store has a friggon sign near the door. I know which places are off limits according to the law and I don't violate the federal or state gun laws. But if I'm entering a restaurant with my wife and several other friends, and I'm engaged in friendly conversation with my dining party, I'm not going to stop and trip over myself, just to go back and see if there was a sign I missed. If some manager notices my gun, (which has never happened) and asks me to leave, then I would leave. And that's all he can do. Ask me to leave, because I'm not violating the law.

    If I refuse to leave after being asked, he can call the police (which, by the way, is the same thing he can do if I weren't carrying a gun). If the police arrive after he asked me to leave, I can be fined $100. But guess what? If he calls the police before asking me to leave, without giving me an opportunity, I'm not getting a fine because the law states I will only be fined for refusing to leave when asked. Why? Because the law states it is not a criminal offense to violated a posted business. Trespassing only applies when asked to leave, and refusing to do so. The same would apply if I weren't carrying a gun.

    In my state, it's all spelled out in the law and pretty much civil in how it is approached. Our legislators were smart enough to realize, that while property owners have rights to an extent... So do lawful gun owners. Lawful gun owners are not the bad guys.

    BTW... The right self defense is a right no one can infringe upon. What is immoral is someone who is so sanctimonious as to think they can refuse someone the right to having a means to defend themself.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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