Carrying Where it is not "authorized", but not illegal... - Page 8

Carrying Where it is not "authorized", but not illegal...

This is a discussion on Carrying Where it is not "authorized", but not illegal... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I work for a place that is open to the public as well, more access points then most can think of. They do have postings ...

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Thread: Carrying Where it is not "authorized", but not illegal...

  1. #106
    Member Array dojoman's Avatar
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    I work for a place that is open to the public as well, more access points then most can think of. They do have postings at the point of entries that states "no weapons" allowed. Of course this is assuming people actually take the time to read it(which lets be honest 1 in like 10 might) and even those that do wont turn around and put w/e it is they are carrying in their car, or just leave. Well the law abiding ones anyways. So of course, +1 criminals.
    Nonetheless to make things a higher risk, the city bus line comes right us, and having many(how do I put this nicely) "less then good intentions" kind of people. Crime is a growing concern in this area, and honestly, my safety is too. My employer seems to think that "well nothing bad has happened here before, so therefore nothing will" kind of mind set. It could just be me but the idea of "when, not if" lurks in my mind.
    I do have a CCW but they have asked me not to carry and I respect that. I will say that I am looking for employment elsewhere. I wont trade my safety for money anymore. Ive debated with my bosses long for two years to even allow the smallest thing (mase) to defend ourself, but he seems to think that we will be reckless with even that.
    I have do have the freedom to work where I please, so just like breaking up with an old girlfriend....its time to move on.


  2. #107
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    I only carry at work on the days I feel like being fired.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

  3. #108
    Ex Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Stanislava, do I have the right to have a voodoo ceremony on your property? A simple yes or no answer will do.

  4. #109
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    The Cub's hat is a bad analogy for you because everyone can see it when you enter... I suggest the analogy of bringing your own snacks into a movie theater. When I go to the theater, I usually wear cargo pants or a jacket with pockets large enough to bring in candy that didn't cost me an arm and a leg. I'm not going to pay $4.50 for a pack of M&Ms, to satisfy your imaginary right to a candy embargo. I guess you're 'moral' enough to pay ≈$9.50 for a bit of popcorn?



    In my state, you can screen me when I enter/deny admittance or trespass me at any time, for pretty much any reason. I respect those rights. I do not respect people who claim phoney rights and I definitely do not surrender my real right to carry a gun in deference to an imaginary right. What would my rights be worth if I sold them out to delusions? Bupkis.



    I think 'nitwit' is the perfect word to describe someone who doesn't bother to learn what his rights are, is too lazy to take the proper action to get what he wants, and expects others to do the job for him at their personal expense. Restaurant owners can screen people at the door or ask them to leave, just the same as anybody else. If they do not, then they are nitwits, as I have just described. I should have the rights that are agreed to by the society in which I am a member...

    The problem is not saying "No ______ in my house", it's the "or else _____" part. As I have previously alluded to, property owners are not and should not be given legal authority to arbitrarily arrest and punish their guests for violating pseudo-laws. On the other hand, they are property owners and that should obviously count for something. The compromise that we have arrived at in this society is the right to ask someone to leave and have them charged with trespassing if they do not. I think it's a great compromise. Even that right has its exceptions, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    Stanislava, do I have the right to have a voodoo ceremony on your property? A simple yes or no answer will do.
    It would be nice if we could have a conversation about the topic, since I spent a very long while writing the previous post above... of course I understand if you're just tired of going back and forth over it, but maybe you could respond to the just the last paragraph that I have bolded.

    I think the best answer to your question about voodoo ceremonies on my property is that if you are on my property and I haven't asked you to leave, then you have a right to do whatever legal activities that you can dream up. I don't know anything about voodoo, but I'm assuming that it doesn't involve anything that's illegal, such as human sacrifice or drug use. If you and I are neighbors and you're out in your yard chanting spells and burning incense and running around in a circle, and you stumble into my yard, what crime could you be charged with? Nothing that I can think of, unless I have told you to stay off of my property (and then you are trespassing). So the simple answer is yes.

    Can you think of something that is perfectly legal that I don't have a right to do?

  5. #110
    Ex Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    I am not asking that property owners be given the right to arbitrarily arrest people, that would be the job of the police. What I am asking is that a sign be the equivalent of the property owner asking you to leave. In my opinion a "No-Guns" sign is the property owner asking someone to leave if they have a gun. What exceptions are those of course?

    And you never answered my question about having a voodoo ceremony on your property?

  6. #111
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    Stanislava, do I have the right to have a voodoo ceremony on your property? A simple yes or no answer will do.
    aren't you getting a little ridiculous right about now... Carrying on a ridiculous voodoo ceremony and carrying a hidden firearm in deep concealment with no intent other than self defense are two different situations altogether. Simply wording a question with hypothetical dumb circumstances designed to stack the response in your favor doesn't give your argument validly; at least not in most intelligent conversations. Truth of the matter is, it's really more like a question of desperation with the intent to provide self satisfaction to it's originator.



    Bottom line; this conversation has been had a few times on this forum, and I'm sure on others as well. The fact is, you and those like you will never change the minds of folks like myself and others that feel our right to life and physical well being no matter where we walk on God's green earth, will always trump the rights of any individual or group of individuals that feel to the contrary. I think it's been made perfectly clear many times over; as long as it's not illegal, we as concealed carry permit holders feel we have the right to use our God given right to self preservation and we don't need permission from anyone to do it. The law clearly indicates in most states, that it's not illegal to carry past the sign, but if asked to leave you must do so. Again it varies from state to state, but that's the extent on the "My right trumps your right" argument. Until you become the President of the USA, or a law maker, all your arguments against it wont ratify it. The End.

    Not trying to flame ya, but it's questions like what if "voodoo ceremony" that just make no sense and begs for smacking around a little.




    Last edited by gottabkiddin; June 15th, 2011 at 10:00 AM.
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    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

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  7. #112
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    I am not asking that property owners be given the right to arbitrarily arrest people, that would be the job of the police. What I am asking is that a sign be the equivalent of the property owner asking you to leave. In my opinion a "No-Guns" sign is the property owner asking someone to leave if they have a gun.
    You surely must be aware by now that there are some states in which one does not have the right to carry past a "No Guns!" sign. You could instantly be charged with some sort of crime, in those states. That sounds like the perfect place for someone like you to own property. As I've said before, that's the beauty of having 50 states to choose from... you have the opportunity to pick which one suits you best (or change the laws of the state you're in). What you can't do is cram your opinion down other people's throats and expect the whole country to do things your way.

    Why don't you try to pass a law in your state that gives signs a legal effect? You could make it illegal to do whatever a sign prohibits on private property. If the sign says "No Guns!", then it would be illegal to possess a gun past the sign. If the sign says "No Cell Phones!", "No Bubblegum!", "No Blue Suede Shoes!", then people could be carted off to jail for ignoring the sign. You've got a right to improve your state and I think you should try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    What exceptions are those of course?
    I said there were exceptions for asking people to leave and having them charged with trespassing if they didn't. Obviously, if the police come to your door with a warrant, you're going to be out of luck if you ask them to leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    And you never answered my question about having a voodoo ceremony on your property?
    I guess it was pretty early in the morning when you read my post, but if you read it again, you'll find that I did answer your question about voodoo ceremonies. I have no idea how you missed it.

  8. #113
    Member Array ZTF Hitman's Avatar
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    Voodoo???? Really???? That's like Obama resorting to blaming ATM's for the poor economy!

  9. #114
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    To me going into a neighbors, family members, or a friends home being armed isn't a big deal. I'm hoping that you know each other well enough to understand that no one should be in danger. Well, unless they make themselves a significant enough threat, or an intruder comes in.

    As far as states go, well, as it has been stated, know the laws. Obey the laws so you don't get arrested, unless of course the risk is justified by the dangers of where you are.

    I can't wait for Wisconsin to finalize the CC bill, and to go over it to understand the total legal ramifications of any actions I may take.

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