Virginia Restaraunts; Carry Open or Concealed

This is a discussion on Virginia Restaraunts; Carry Open or Concealed within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy Educate me because I don't understand this law. We don't have open carry at all in Texas, but you are ...

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Thread: Virginia Restaraunts; Carry Open or Concealed

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy
    Educate me because I don't understand this law.

    We don't have open carry at all in Texas, but you are saying you can carry open in VA without a license anywhere but you have restrictions on where you can carry concealed?

    That makes no since to me, does anyone know why the law is like that?
    Yeah there are a few other restrictions that don't make sense to me, like the restriction against carrying in church during a worship service without "good and sufficient reason", whithout explaining what "good and sufficient" means. The left makes a big deal about the separation of church and state saying that they do not want the church to influence the government, then they go about telling us what we can and cannot do during a worship service.
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

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  3. #17
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    You need to get a pro-gun state senator to prefile a bill to make open carry in bars and restaurants illegal and to make concealed carry in the same places legal. Then put up billboards, take out newspaper ads and TV and radio ads promoting the part you want the sheeple to hear: "We want to make it illegal to open carry a firearm in bars and restaurants." Don't tell them about the second part. If you get it out before the bill comes up and the antis start their campaign the brainwashing will have already taken place. The other thing to do is to make sure the organization name for the group that pays for the ads has a good anti sound to it. Mothers Against Open Carry in Restaurants and Bars. Virginia Anti-Open Carry in Restaurants and Bars League. I'm sure someone with more imagination could come up with better names.

    If you get the right name and make sure it is prominently displayed on all the ads, when the real antis start their campaign it will sound like you are both saying the same thing or it will sound like a conflict among two anti groups.
    George

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  4. #18
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    One of the VA legislators once said that the NRA was the most powerful lobby in VA. Well someone corrected him that the restaurant lobby is the most powerful. For over 10 years the pro-gun guys have been trying to remove the "restaurant ban" unsuccessfully. Once it is finally struck the restaurants will be forced to post signs. This is what they fear because they know their members will be flooded with letters letting them know that permit holders will not patronize their businesses because of the sign. By keeping it the law of the state the individual restaurant owners don't need to post and subsequently face the reprisals of CHP holders in VA.

    BTW you may not carry open in Falls Church, VA and there is a city down south, I think Hampton, VA (both are have grandfathered bans). Open carry in many parts of FFX and such, while frowned upon by the populace, is allowed and FFX has had some rather painful education on the topic by the VCDL and others.

    IIRC next year is a short session so getting the ban repealed is slim to none for that one. But good luck in the future.
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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott
    BTW you may not carry open in Falls Church, VA and there is a city down south, I think Hampton, VA (both are have grandfathered bans).
    Actually Scott the grandfathering was removed two years ago. Virginia now has full pre-emption. All local statutes must now conform to state law (i.e. no local bans).
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

  6. #20
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    Until you can get the law changed, I would want to carry open in a high retention level holster for open carry. Luckily in MI we can concealed carry in most restaurants as long as they don't make most of their money from booze.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  7. #21
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    When open carrying...I usually use my Blade-Tech IWB open top kydex

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    I don't think Virginia gun owners would want to focus on banning open carry in bars; we simply want to conceal carry in restaurants. First, we want to have the law differentiate between a bar (tavern), where the primary business is alcohol sales but you can get food, and a restaurant, where the primary business is food sales but you can get alcohol. Then the existing law against conceal carry in alcohol serving establishments can be modified to just include the bar category. Easier said than done, as P8prior points out.

    As I said in my original post, I've started open carrying in restaurants and have gotten no feedback, positive or negative, from fellow diners or wait staff. My big stress is that my ravingly liberal anti-gun Rabbi and his wife, who I love dearly, often dine with my wife and I. It's only a matter of time before they see the butt of my Kel-Tec and tell me they'll never dine with me again; the price we pay for safety.

    You don't have to completely show your gun in a holster to be open carrying. The law says that if enough of the gun is visible that any reasonable person would identify it as a gun, then it's not concealed. If it's not concealed, then by default, it's open. Whether a gun is carried IWB or outside in a holster, all anyone sees is the grips and hammer. In both cases, that's open carry. If you wear a cover garment over your gun, just tuck the garment in behing the grips when you enter the establishment, and you're in open carry mode.

    Someone in the above thread mentioned the stupid Virginia ban on conceal carry in houses of worship without reasonable cause. Every couple of years, a Jewish Community Center or Synagogue is attacked by an armed white supremecist anti-semitic lunatic (happened again this past week in Seattle); I think that's enough justifiable reason for me to carry concealed when I attend Friday evening prayer services. My Christian friends might have a more difficult time justifying CC in church.
    Last edited by jofrdo; July 31st, 2006 at 11:34 AM.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    There have been several instances in the last year in MD where churchgoers where robbed DURING a service...plus in other places around the county which have proved a "good and sufficient reason". My backup is my pastor's permission to carry in church...he, in fact, enourages CCW (former Navy MACS, and Navy LE-LDO)

  10. #24
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    P8tiot, thanks for the update on Open Carry. They got that one in while I was moving I think.

    I carried at church in Virginia. Didn't tell anyone and I don't believe anyone knew either. If they did it wasn't a problem. I would ooccassionally accept invitations to a friend's church for special events and such. I knew his pastor who is an NRA instructor among other things and he had told several of the folks at the church who he trained or shot with that they should be carrying while in church. I don't know if any of the other parishioners knew or not. We/they were all concealed so it didn't matter.
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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jofrdo
    I don't think Virginia gun owners would want to focus on banning open carry in bars; we simply want to conceal carry in restaurants. First, we want to have the law differentiate between a bar (tavern), where the primary business is alcohol sales but you can get food, and a restaurant, where the primary business is food sales but you can get alcohol. Then the existing law against conceal carry in alcohol serving establishments can be modified to just include the bar category. Easier said than done, as P8prior points out.

    As I said in my original post, I've started open carrying in restaurants and have gotten no feedback, positive or negative, from fellow diners or wait staff. My big stress is that my ravingly liberal anti-gun Rabbi and his wife, who I love dearly, often dine with my wife and I. It's only a matter of time before they see the butt of my Kel-Tec and tell me they'll never dine with me again; the price we pay for safety.

    You don't have to completely show your gun in a holster to be open carrying. The law says that if enough of the gun is visible that any reasonable person would identify it as a gun, then it's not concealed. If it's not concealed, then by default, it's open. Whether a gun is carried IWB or outside in a holster, all anyone sees is the grips and hammer. In both cases, that's open carry. If you wear a cover garment over your gun, just tuck the garment in behing the grips when you enter the establishment, and you're in open carry mode.

    Someone in the above thread mentioned the stupid Virginia ban on conceal carry in houses of worship without reasonable cause. Every couple of years, a Jewish Community Center or Synagogue is attacted by an armed white supremecist anti-semitic lunatic (happened again this past week in Seattle); I think that's enough justifiable reason for me to carry concealed when I attend Friday evening prayer services. My Christian friends might have a more difficult time justifying CC in church.
    The problem here, in Virginia, there ARE NO BARS, only restaurants. If a restaurant has too much of it's revenue come from alcohol sales (I think it's 30 %), then the ABC board will SHUT IT DOWN.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Plenty of bars in Fairfax. I used to Bounce @ Fast Eddies in FFX City. I don't know if the law somehow differs up there, but trust me, the majority of their revenue came straight from liqour.
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  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixBravo
    Plenty of bars in Fairfax. I used to Bounce @ Fast Eddies in FFX City. I don't know if the law somehow differs up there, but trust me, the majority of their revenue came straight from liqour.
    A few bars down Richmond way too, and in the rest of the tri-cities area for that matter.
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    P8trait, on July 29 you wrote "I always switch to open carry when I go into a restaurant that serves alcohol... So far in over 15yrs of open carrying I have only been bothered 3 times."

    Do you mind telling details of those 3 times when you were bothered? I'm still uncomfortable with open carry, but am forcing myself into the habit to get over the discomfort. It intestests me to hear of others' open carry experiences.

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jofrdo
    P8trait, on July 29 you wrote "I always switch to open carry when I go into a restaurant that serves alcohol... So far in over 15yrs of open carrying I have only been bothered 3 times."

    Do you mind telling details of those 3 times when you were bothered? I'm still uncomfortable with open carry, but am forcing myself into the habit to get over the discomfort. It intestests me to hear of others' open carry experiences.
    "Bothered" was an unfortunate choice of words on my part. The truth is no one has ever bothered me about my open carrying (except my wife, who will not OC in public). There were actually four separate times, not 3 as I noted before.

    The first time was at a Shoney's here in Chesterfield when the server asked if I was expecting any trouble, and I replied, "I hope not." She smiled and went about her job as usual with no further comments.

    The second time was at a convenience store near my home. I was leaving, and a guy sitting at a picnic table outside asked what dept I was with. I told him I wasn't with any, and he told me that he thought it was "cool" that an "average citizen" would be carrying. Then he asked me some questions about my pistol.

    The third time I was at Jiffy Lube getting an oil change. As I was leaving, the technician asked what kind of pistol I was carrying. We talked a little bit, and he said he was looking to get a pistol for his 21st birthday and apply for his CC permit. I took the opportunity to educate him and his co-workers on VA firearms laws, and they gave me a $15 discount on my oil change in return.

    There was one other time this past summer, it was at a diner in North Carolina while we were on the way down to our beach house. I was open carrying and we just walked in and sat down. After our meal we got up to go. My wife and son went outside and I stopped to pay the bill and the cashier rang up a 20% discount to our tab. I asked if there was a mistake, and she said that they gave a 20% discount to all police officers and fire-fighters. I informed her that I was not a police officer (although I used to be, and still kinda look like one), and she said that was OK, it was "our little secret", and let the discount stand.

    These were the only times anyone has ever asked about my open carrying, and every time it was positive.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead anyone.

    Best regards,

    P8riot
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    jofrdo,
    I don't even have a CCW yet. I open carry quite often. Most of the responses I get are.. non responses. People glance and move on, like they noticed a lanyard for keys or a person walking a dog. No big deal because this state LOVES its guns. haha Most of the negative reactions I get from people come from the local college population. I'll get a scowl or two from them.

    The worst reaction I ever got was when I was buying a pack of smokes at the local Stop-n-Rob. I was up at the counter talkin to the guy who always gets stuck working the graveyard - I'm a night owl so I know him well. I made some comment to him about having to deal with idiots late at night, because he ALWAYS has good stories about drunks falling over themselves, etc. Well, without fail, I happen to be there discussing this very topic when one walks in. This guy, sporting dreds and a smell of pot n petchulli, moseys right past me. I had my strong side away from him and he walked in the door from the left. He went to the back for something from the cooler and came back. As he was walking back, he stopped and then walked right up to me and asked me what right I have to "carry a gun in a place like this?!"
    I was, to say the least, quite astonished that such an upstanding human being as this would not be firmiliar with the local laws - especially considering his bloodshot eyes. I recall the clerk snickering a little and I probably gave a little laugh. I don't think this made the poor guy any happier. He then demanded "Well?!"
    I told him that, I may have been mistaken but I was PRETTY sure, but not positive, that it was the 2nd Amendment. He gave me some flak about the second clause and asked me if I was a member of a well-regulated militia.
    I was, without a doubt, speaking to a philosoph.
    I told him I didn't need to be because the state's laws told me I was allowed to and that he should probably goto the local grocery store check out how many people there were carrying. He replied that he had and it made him sick that there were so many violent individuals "in this town."
    At this point, I turned to my buddy the clerk and asked him if he felt threatened by my .40 HK. He gave a hearty laugh, pulled back his smock and there was a Kimber tucked into a IWB holster at his 3:30. I was surprised as hell to see him display like that because I didn't even know he carried. At this point the angry guy rolled his eyes and made a comment about how people like us are the cause of crime.
    I was going to chime in but the clerk gave him a small lesson about the lack of any violent crime in the area and the extremely high number of firearms, called him a "dirty hippie," and the angry guy left.

    The clerk and I joked and laughed about that one for another 20 minutes and talked shop for awhile. Our running gag when he sees me now is that "his is bigger" and it always gets good laugh out of both of us.

    In a place like Central/Northern Arizona, you will find people OC'ing every day. Much like Texas, some people use them every day just for ranch work. (A friend of mine was building a fence, broke his sink tool so he got his 12 guage and started using that to start holes) I suspect there are probably 3 or 4 CCWers for every OC, though. Virginia is going to be a VERY different deal. OC is still "new" there and you will get a lot of people who are ignorant of the law - friendly to your situation or not. The best thing you can do is hold your head high and ALWAYS take the moral high ground. It is your right to carry and anyone who OC's should remember that. Just keep a calm tone of voice, have a rational argument ready and make sure you are legal. That's all you can do. If they become aggressive, back away from them and tell them "good day." I don't want to discourage you to carry, but let's be honest, we carry because of "the realities of our situation."

    Semper Vigilans, man.
    The Gunsite Blog
    ITFT / Quick Kill Review
    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

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