Virginia Restaraunts; Carry Open or Concealed

Virginia Restaraunts; Carry Open or Concealed

This is a discussion on Virginia Restaraunts; Carry Open or Concealed within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Virginia law makes it a misdemeanor crime for permit holders to carry concealed in any establishment which sells alcohol by the single drink. I understand ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38
  1. #1
    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Chesapeake, Virginia
    Posts
    709

    Virginia Restaraunts; Carry Open or Concealed

    Virginia law makes it a misdemeanor crime for permit holders to carry concealed in any establishment which sells alcohol by the single drink. I understand that the law was written with bars in mind, but the language makes it apply to your average family-style restaraunt. Interestingly, it is legal for anyone (permit holder or not) to open carry in those same establishments.

    So, as a permit holder, when my wife and I go out to eat, my choice is to 1) switch from concealed carrty to open carry, 2) leave the gun in the car or 3) committ a crime by carrying concealed in the restaraunt. I imagine that many permit holders in Virginia simply carry concealed, assuming they won't get caught. Indeed, police friends of mine say they would never charge a permit holder who they found to be carrying concealed illegally in that type of situation, if they weren't causing a problem.

    Leaving the gun in the car doesn't work for me, since that defeats the purpose of having the gun and the permit in the first place; walking back to the car across a darkened parking lot is one of those times when I want the gun on me! I carry my Kel Tec P11 9mm in a Galco pocket holster. Pocket carry is so much more comfortable, especially when seated. I have a factory option belt clip on the gun's frame, so when I need to open carry, the gun comes out of the holster and clips inside the waistband behind the hip with the grips visible above the belt.

    I've only done this a couple of times, so far with no consequences, but I worry that those few seconds when I am standing next to my car discreetly holding a loaded, unholstered gun (while transferring from holster to IWB) I could freak out a passerby or even get into trouble for brandishing. I find it cumbersome to make this transition while still seated in the car. I really want a pocket holster that has a belt clip mounted to the exterior. Then the entire holtsered package can be drawn from the pocket and clipped to the belt.

    I am working with a local holster maker (Backwoods Leather, Portsmouth, VA) to see if this is possible. He worries that a belt clip would cut into my thigh or erode the pocket fabric plus make the package too thick. I think where we are going is a removable clip that snaps onto the exterior of the pocket leather. So, when I carry in the pocket, it'll be a standard pocket holster but with 3 or 4 metal snaps on one exterior surface. When I change to open carry, I'll just snap on the belt clip and hang it on my belt; problem solved.


  2. #2
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,484
    Hi -



    Your transitioning dilemma is what has always come to mind there - as a potential headache to get it done with no fuss or discovery. It would seem LE sees some of the problems but even so - sadly, the law is the law there. It is illogical to me and I am thankful we do not have that problem here.

    I have BTW split your post into para's for easier reading!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    1,950
    Well first of all, Welcome! from a fellow Virginian

    I'd advise against going concealed in a restaurant in disobedience to the law. Virginia permit holders have a reputation of being among the most law abiding citizens in the commonwealth. If it becomes known that we are disobeying the law it will become harder for us to get it changed, and even harder for us to be taken seriously when it concerns other legislation.

    I always switch to open carry when I go into a restaurant that serves alcohol, and if the restaurant forbids firearms I would go somewhere else and let them know why I am leaving. So far in over 15yrs of open carrying I have only been bothered 3 times.

    As for pocket carry, I used to pocket carry a Kahr PM9, but found that it would be too difficult to draw from a pocket while seated. I don't carry the PM9 anymore, I carry a SIG instead, but I keep a paddle holster in each of my cars so I am never caught outside without it being in a holster.
    Last edited by p8riot; July 29th, 2006 at 10:53 AM.
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,843
    With respect I say >>> I feel sorry for the citizens of a state that has laws such as these.

    It seems as if the politicians,police,and indeed,the ordinary citizen/voter,is making the carry thing allot harder than it has to be. They are intentionally passing laws so that their citizens are forced to break those same laws.

    This sort of behavior from a politician suggests to me that they should not hold office. This is very sad. Your damed if you do and dead if you don't. ---------

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    1,950
    Quote Originally Posted by RSSZ
    With respect I say >>> I feel sorry for the citizens of a state that has laws such as these.
    We are working to get the law changed. One state judge has published opinions that the law could not be enforced since there are no penalties spelled out in the law. But nevertheless, it is still the law, however stupid.
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array Todd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    189
    We have the same dumb rule here. If you can buy and consume alcohol in the same place, no CCW. Our instructor said it was just an old law put on the books back in the day when drinks were mainly sold only at bars and not at restaurants and the laws never have been updated. I think it's kind of stupid, since it's illegal here to carry if you have so much as .0000001 of any type of controlled substance in your bloodstream. Obviously, if you're drinking you should not be carrying. But, a law is a law, and I either don't go in those restaurants, or leave the gun in the the car safe.

  7. #7
    VIP Member
    Array dr_cmg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    10,808
    If I might make a suggestion. Rather than having a paddle holster in each vehicle try a C&D Crossdraw from Mark Garrity.

    http://www.garritysgunleather.com/Po...tyHolsters.htm

    You can actually kill two birds with one great holster stone. I just got my C&D Crossdraw in today (it's being broken in so no photos until tomorrow). It is designed to be worn when you are in the vehicle in a crossdraw position so the seatbelt and should belt do not block your weapon. If you swap your carry pistol from a concealed strong side holster when you get in the vehicle and you go to a restaurant where you have to carry openly, just get out of the car or truck and go in. You are already open carrying. If you are instead going to Wally World; unsnap the C&D Crossdraw, remove the pistol and put it back into your concealment holster.

    Using this method you don't have to have a holster just for restaurant wear. Mark Garrity makes the C&D Crossdraw for most pistols. DISCLAIMER: I have no investment in Garrity's Gunleather and I paid the same price for my holster as you will pay for yours.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Prescott, AZ
    Posts
    1,692
    Yeah I would have to agree with p8riot. It would probably be a better idea to not carry in the restaurants. I used to live up in NOVA, but I live in AZ and we have a similar law here (of all places....). It is kind of stupid to have a law like that, without a doubt. Obviously if we are responsible enough to get a CCW and pass the background check, we aren't dumb enough to go out with buddies for some beers while carrying.

    What it boils down to, I think, is that you have to be concerned with other places. You stated that none of the LEO's you know would ever arrest anyone who was carrying without disturbance.
    But what happens if you go up north into NOVA? Chesapeake, from what I know, tends to be a more rural area. You could get into the habit of doing it down there... But what happens is you head North and somehow get made by an anti-2 LEO from say, Fairfax County or Prince William County?
    Getting into the habit down there may lead to problems in the future. I think its just a better idea not to.
    The Gunsite Blog
    ITFT / Quick Kill Review
    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Chesapeake, Virginia
    Posts
    709
    Thanks, you guys are giving some good suggestions for me to try if it doesn't work out for me with the reconfiguragle holster I described in my original post.

    SixBravo, P8riot did not suggest not carrying in restaurants; his opinion is that we should not carry "concealed;" he and I both "open" carry in alcohol serving restaurants, but he's been doing it for a lot longer.

    I used to be in the occasional habit of ordering a beer with dinner but no longer. If I ever have to defend myself with my gun, I don't want a witness being able to testify, in the inevitable court proceedings, that they saw me drinking. Even if I were not drunk, and the gun use was fully justifiable, an anti-gun prosecuter could use it against me. All of my friends with permits advise me to carry concealed in restaurants; it helps my confidence to hear that there are other open carriers out there.

    P8riot; the law almost got changed this past year but not quite.

    RSSZ; no politician or group of same wrote a single law that got us into this difficult position. The current state of affairs is the result of years and years of law upon law, some contridictory to others. Virginia is overall a gun friendly state (well, northern Virginia isn't) so don't feel sorry for us; we can legally open carry just about anywhere without a permit. I think the restaurant situation will resolve itself in the next few years if the Bushies don't screw up so badly that Virginia stops voting Replublican. This past year, permit holders got permission to conceal carry in a car on public school grounds (permit holder must remain in the car) to allow for drop-off and pick-up of their little brats.

    I was just about to write that I'm new to the site and don't understand the "anti-2" abbreviation, but it just dawned on me: "anti 2nd Ammendment." I'm a little slow sometimes.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    1,950
    Quote Originally Posted by jofrdo
    RSSZ; no politician or group of same wrote a single law that got us into this difficult position.
    That is not entirely accurate. Back before Virginia became "shall issue" in 1995 under Governor (now Senator) George Allen, it was perfectly legal to carry concealed into bars and restaurants that served alcohol. The restaurant ban was a compromise to get the "shall issue" legislation through, and we have been trying to get rid of it ever since.
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    759
    Educate me because I don't understand this law.

    We don't have open carry at all in Texas, but you are saying you can carry open in VA without a license anywhere but you have restrictions on where you can carry concealed?

    That makes no since to me, does anyone know why the law is like that?
    Timmy Jimmy

    If it is not in the US Constitution then the Federal Government should not be doing it.

    "Carrying a gun is a social responsibility."

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Prescott, AZ
    Posts
    1,692
    Yeah that's right. You can carry more places while openly carrying than concealed. It is probably some lawmakers idea of "I would just feel better if cops knew while they were in there." Most gun owners don't understand it. Neither do most rational people. lol I was even discussing this two nights ago with my buddy Mike, who's a little more on the left side. He said it sounded like the dumbest thing he'd ever heard.
    --------------------
    Yeah I forgot about the suggestion to just OC while in restaurants. However, you do need to recall that while LEO (Law Enforcement Officers) are entrusted to enforce the laws, none of them know all the laws. They are human too and have their own interpretations of what "Open Carry" is. Some will tell you that if they can see the holster, they know what it is. Others may tell you that "if I can't see the whole thing, then its in violation of the law."
    It all depends, man. Semper Vigilans.
    The Gunsite Blog
    ITFT / Quick Kill Review
    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

  13. #13
    Ex Member Array Todd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy
    Educate me because I don't understand this law.

    We don't have open carry at all in Texas, but you are saying you can carry open in VA without a license anywhere but you have restrictions on where you can carry concealed?

    That makes no since to me, does anyone know why the law is like that?
    Same thing here in NC. Open carry without a permit, with a few places off limits no matter what. You can know absolutely nothing about guns, go get your $5 permit to purchase, wait a week, buy a gun, strap it on, and be perfectly legal. The minute you want to wear a shirt over the gun it will cost you $80 for the license, $10 for finger prints, and anywhere from $80 to $120 for the required 8 hour training class. Seems kind of a$$ backward to me.

    And yes, there are more limitations as to where you can CCW vs carrying open. I guess I would have to be a politician to understand it.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    1,950
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy
    Educate me because I don't understand this law.

    We don't have open carry at all in Texas, but you are saying you can carry open in VA without a license anywhere but you have restrictions on where you can carry concealed?

    That makes no since to me, does anyone know why the law is like that?
    Well it doesn't make any sense to a lot of us either. That is why we are trying to get it struck from the books. Bottom line, from what I understand, is it was a carrot given to some "anti"-senators that were beholding to the restaurant/hotel lobby to get their buy-in on Virginia's "shall issue" legislation back in 1995.

    Every year we try to get the legislation changed, those opposed flood the airwaves with disinformation saying that we want to allow Virginians to carry guns in bars. Of course they never mention that it is already perfectly legal to open carry in bars, but want to promulgate the shock value. The "great unwashed" fall in line lock step and contact their representatives and get them to squash the legislation.

    What we need to do is to educate the citizens of Virginia that it is already legal to carry in bars, and most everywhere else for that matter, so that the disinformation is effectively countered. But "the sheeple" will always be led astray, because they either don't have the capacity to think on their own, or just flat out refuse to reason the issue out in their own minds, or they are just too damn lazy. We need to start now, not wait until the next legislative session opens in January. Next year is an election year in Virginia, we need to remind the lawmakers that we are watching.
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kommie-fornia-stan
    Posts
    7,077
    Here's the cliff notes version...
    In VA....you are able to open carry (except where prohibited by law..schools, etc) WITHOUT a permit...yes, in the free state of VA...no need to get a silly permit to OPEN carry.

    To conceal carry, you must apply for a concealed HANDGUN permit (not weapon) after you have completed the required 8-hr training, or show your DD214 or active duty/reserve ID as verification of weapons training. The permit application is submitted to your county clerk's office and the county SHALL ISSUE you a permit within/no longer than 45 days (provided you are not hiding that you are a convicted felon, etc...in your application)

    HOWEVER--regardless of whether you have a CHP or not--if the restaurant serves alcohol (i.e. has an ABC license) YOU MUST open carry...this is the Alcohol Beverage Commission's way of sticking permit holders in the eye, thinking we would be discouraged from carrying...little do they know...

    VCDL has been extremely active in getting this overturned through legislation...the antis call this the "Guns in Bars" law....the idiots

    Mike in VA

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Funny concealed carry with an obviously OPEN carry holster I saw today...
    By targus in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: April 19th, 2010, 06:09 PM
  2. Open carry inside house in a concealed carry state...
    By RogerThat in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: January 3rd, 2010, 08:40 PM
  3. Open Carry is Virginia State Parks
    By DaveH in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: March 31st, 2009, 10:35 PM
  4. The Virginia Two-Step: Restaurants-Open Carry or Car? :MERGED now w/ poll
    By Pitbull in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 105
    Last Post: January 10th, 2009, 10:44 PM
  5. Open Carry vs Concealed in Virginia
    By prawls in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: June 4th, 2007, 03:06 PM

Search tags for this page

can you carry a gun in a restraunt in virginia

,

chesapeake va gun law

,

chesapeake va open carry

,

concealed carry chesapeake virginia

,

find concealed carry permit holders in your neighborhood in virginia

,

is it legal to carry a concealed weapon in restaraunts in virginia

,

legal carry in chesapeake virginia bars

,

open carry chesterfield virginia

,

open carry in crystal city va

,

open carry or concealed carry virginia

,

restaurant social concerns in virginia

,

virginia open carry restaurant

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors