"no guns" sign on gym door.

This is a discussion on "no guns" sign on gym door. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Okay, this is not meant to be controversial or advocating anything illegal. I'm just asking for opinions here. I take my daughter to swimming lessons ...

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Thread: "no guns" sign on gym door.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    "no guns" sign on gym door.

    Okay, this is not meant to be controversial or advocating anything illegal. I'm just asking for opinions here.

    I take my daughter to swimming lessons at this local GYM and only today did I noticed that they had a sign about guns. I should have taken a picture, but didn't think about it until now. But to make a long story short, they have the required sign language that is required in Texas to prevent legal carry on their property. Just for reference, here is the wordage:

    "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

    "CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."


    However, here is the issue. The darned sign is about the size of a credit card. That is why i never noticed it before. Now, according to Texas law, here are the requirements of the sign:

    Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(B) further states that a sign must meet the following requirements:

    1. includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
    2. appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
    3. is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.


    So that brings up the question. Is their sign valid? The letters are supposed to be 1 inch in height, but their entire sign is only like 2 to 3 inches tall. I've searched google on this and found many different opinions on the matter. Obviously, I've been carrying my gun on their property because I never saw the sign. The purpose for the sign requirements is obvious now, because if businesses don't follow it, people will never see it. I suspect I could continue to carry on their property and unless somebody asks me to leave, I'm probably fine legally speaking. But now that I know that they don't want me to carry there, should I? Should I tell them that their sign is not conforming to Texas law? What would you do?

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array USPnTX's Avatar
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    No the sign is not valid according to Texas statute. When you see a sign that is actually designed according to the statute you will know it. They are pretty darn big!!
    "Do not fear those who disagree with you; fear those that do and are too cowardly to admit it" - Napoleon

  4. #3
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    I wouldn't carry there. We've got a mall locally that does nearly the same thing. The notice is listed with all the other "mall rules" on a bulletin board inside the entrance. Since I'm aware of it, I respect their wishes.

    I'm not familiar enough with the laws in your state to tell you whether you can legally ignore the sign, but usually if people let it be known that they don't want guns on the premises, I respect their wishes and take my gun and my business elsewhere.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    It may not he a good idea to wear your "I'm carrying a gun" shirt in there.

    I'd say no. Even if the sign doesn't conform to Texas statutes, you're going against their wishes. And who has deeper pockets for a legal battle?? You or the YMCA? You could be asking for an expensive carrying experience in court.
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  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    ask them if the sign applies if there is no round in the chamber. perhaps
    you can argue that since it is not technically loaded it doesn't count for you.

    if that don't work than point out to them that their sign is not the proper size
    and than, thanks to you, they will be able to make it right. though without regard
    to the actual legality of the sign, if they know about a gun and ask that person to leave
    you risk being arrested for trespassing if you don't. or don't have the gun.
    your call
    younggun likes this.
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    And I do a 180 turn when I see "Stupid Signs at Stupid Places" that can be a hazard to my health. I will not spend my money there or at any other place that has these signs, thankfully there are few in Georgia!
    Stubborn likes this.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member Array DaRedneck's Avatar
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    Their sign is not legal but you are. I'd ignore it and continue carrying. If ever found out and asked to leave I'd politely leave. That's me though. Some folks lean toward honoring the property owners wishes and just not carry. I lean towards simply obeying the law and never letting anyone know I am carrying. It could be they posted that unbinding sign so tiny to appease with antis. An organization as big as YMCA would know the letter of the law and that that sign can't prevent you from legally carrying inside their facility so I lean towards the fact they put that itty bitty tinnie Winnie sign up to make a complainer shutup.
    bps3040 and Buckj like this.
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    New Member Array kcgix's Avatar
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    Maybe they just don't want you flexing and showing off them guns!

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    Member Array Cattus Vir's Avatar
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    If I read other threads correctly I believe the sign has to meet all criteria including size for it to be enforced. Please do NOT take my word for it. If in doubt do not carry. Since it is questionable in your mind print the regulations and drop them off the next time your there.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    It's not a legal sign,the letters have to be 1" high,I walk right past Illegal signs,usually they just say something like the Illegal possession of a firearm on these premises is a Felony bla bla bla
    Buckj likes this.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattus Vir View Post
    If I read other threads correctly I believe the sign has to meet all criteria including size for it to be enforced. Please do NOT take my word for it. If in doubt do not carry. Since it is questionable in your mind print the regulations and drop them off the next time your there.
    I wouldn't let them know their error since it's not a legal sign and I could carry because of that,why would I let them know so they could then post a legal sign
    Buckj and scgunlover1 like this.
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    Member Array Cattus Vir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I wouldn't let them know their error since it's not a legal sign and I could carry because of that,why would I let them know so they could then post a legal sign
    I believe people make mistakes. Why go through the hassle of having LEO called on you for legally carrying a weapon into a facility with an non-regulation sign. If they really want the sign to be legit they will change it, if not then they won't.

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    Since the sign does not meet the requirements of state statutes it is not legal. I'd go ahead and carry. As to telling them about it, I'd pass on telling them. I would print out a copy of the statute and carry it with me. That way if questioned about it, you have something to show them to back your position.
    Buckj likes this.
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    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Okay, this is not meant to be controversial or advocating anything illegal. I'm just asking for opinions here.

    I take my daughter to swimming lessons at this local GYM and only today did I noticed that they had a sign about guns. I should have taken a picture, but didn't think about it until now. But to make a long story short, they have the required sign language that is required in Texas to prevent legal carry on their property. Just for reference, here is the wordage:

    "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

    "CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."


    However, here is the issue. The darned sign is about the size of a credit card. That is why i never noticed it before. Now, according to Texas law, here are the requirements of the sign:

    Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(B) further states that a sign must meet the following requirements:

    1. includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
    2. appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
    3. is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.


    So that brings up the question. Is their sign valid? The letters are supposed to be 1 inch in height, but their entire sign is only like 2 to 3 inches tall. I've searched google on this and found many different opinions on the matter. Obviously, I've been carrying my gun on their property because I never saw the sign. The purpose for the sign requirements is obvious now, because if businesses don't follow it, people will never see it. I suspect I could continue to carry on their property and unless somebody asks me to leave, I'm probably fine legally speaking. But now that I know that they don't want me to carry there, should I? Should I tell them that their sign is not conforming to Texas law? What would you do?
    if the sign does not meet the standards set by the laws in TX it has no legal standing.
    Buckj likes this.

  16. #15
    New Member Array jelewill's Avatar
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    I think the state should have the proper signs printed, and anyone wishing to post a 30.06 sign, will have to go to their local DPS office, Sheriff's office or Police station, and purchase the sign. That would make everything legal. We have to pay through the nose to get a concealed carry license, and I think they should at least have to purchase the proper legal signs. IMHO.
    Last edited by jelewill; June 16th, 2011 at 11:27 AM.

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