Enhanced Firearms And the Courtroom - Page 2

Enhanced Firearms And the Courtroom

This is a discussion on Enhanced Firearms And the Courtroom within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My carry guns have virtually always been modified/cleaned up (by professionals). While it is possible that they might cause some "crap" in court, if you ...

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Thread: Enhanced Firearms And the Courtroom

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    My carry guns have virtually always been modified/cleaned up (by professionals). While it is possible that they might cause some "crap" in court, if you are in court you already have problems, incident or DA wise.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".


  2. #17
    Member Array Willieboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsrule View Post
    I'm pretty sure you totally misunderstood whatever it was you read.

    Perhaps it was "enhanced sentencing" - which means extra time if you have prior convictions or use a weapon while commiting another crime?
    I'm afraid I didn't misunderstand. The guy was sentenced to an additional ten years for having "enhanced" his firearm. This news report was not the first I'd heard of the problem, but confirmed what I already thought.

  3. #18
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skysoldier29 View Post
    I know a prosecutor that is very anti gun and he straight up told me that he would do what ever it took to prosecute any case involving a gun. He further told me that he didn't think anyone should own any type of firearms excluding LEOs on duty only and the military on duty only. He was one of those types that would find any reason to convince a jury that a person was guilty of a gun crime.
    This is where I like the idea of recording (where legal) public officials; if you had a recording of this statement it could be great for a counter charge of malicious prosecution, I hate officials that use their position to push a personal agenda.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    I carry a weapon to defend myself and my liberty. I train to be proficient and have my carry guns worked on as necessary to refine them into the most capable self defense tools available for my preferences and requirements. If FORCED into a situation, by some criminal dirtbag intent on doing harm to myself or those I care about or any innocent around me unable to defend themselves, I am not at all considering the courtroom or any punitive action that the judicial system of our country will take to strip my rights and freedoms from me, either through lies, fictional circumstances, liberal policy or a firearm "made more lethal."

    I am in it to win and see that I and those innocent lives around me put in harms way by a predator survive and prosper. And that said predator ceases what ever violent criminal activity they were doing that forced me to act/react for the common good. Any court appearance after the fact will be dealt with later, survival is what actually matters. If forced to fight I won't be fighting fair.

  5. #20
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willieboy View Post
    Guys, I have had some changes made to a Ruger SP101. I've had the hammer bobbed, the trigger smoothed and lightened and the gun is now double action only.

    I recently saw in the news where a guy was convicted in what was apparently an unjustified and given an EXTRA ten years becasue his gun was said to be "enhanced", maybe like my SP101.

    Do any of you guys have an feel for this? Would you carry a gun that had been "Enhanced"?
    No I don't and wouldn't: two reasons: I am an idiot mechanically and leave my car brakes and guns alone and hire experts if they need work: the manufacturers. And 2nd: yes, I think there are possible legal implications, including the impression you are an "expert" in guns and have tailored your gun so it is a more efficient killer. This is a far different impression that you are an average citizen suddenly finding himself an unwanted victim of a lethal attack who has been licensed by the state as proficient in handgun use and law-abiding - and who is forced to repel the lethal attack with the available weapon or face death.
    MadMac likes this.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    I dont know of any law where an enhansed firearm is an element of the crime, or a charge unto itself. But then I dont know everything. I could see a reckless inclusion in some cases such as an overly light trigger, or if someone was set afire by a ported barrel. Or perhaps a depraved indifference inclusion....

    I'm not familiar with the case under examination so I can comment intelligently on it. But I'd imagine that just as damaging as an "ENHANSED" firearm would be some of the comments made in forum's such as this. It all go's to intent. Intent being the requsite culpable state of mind for being charged with a gun crime other than some reckless behaviour. For example... If a person was on trial for some degree of murder and was asked to explain why he lightened the trigger pull. And the answer was "Because of the loss of strength in my arthuritic hands" would play better that "To have better control, and be more accurate". Now both answers are reasonable, and correct. But one could easily be manipualated by a D/A or plaintif atty. Once again it go's to intent.

    Anyway I personally recomend that unless a trigger is just impossible, there's no reason to lighten it. Smoothing is not lightening. I (this is just me) believe that the shooter should master the firearm.... not that the firearm should master the shooter.


    Spuk!
    Last edited by Secret Spuk; June 21st, 2011 at 08:42 PM.

  7. #22
    Ex Member Array Snatale42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    It is because you live in nj. That is not normal behavior in free America.
    Very true!

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willieboy View Post
    I recently saw in the news where a guy was convicted in what was apparently an unjustified and given an EXTRA ten years becasue his gun was said to be "enhanced", maybe like my SP101.
    Is there a cite to this incident?

    Thanks.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    As one who has sat thru and spoken to many attorneys on this issue, I believe this is a mute point. If the shooting was justified, it is justified regardless of what you have on the weapon.

    Additionally, the fact that a prosecuter may even bring this up would show an act of desperation on their part. Any defense attorney could easily explain modifications.

    It's like this; if you had a car and changed the tires and rims, put in a new air filter, and had a wreck, unless their were some circumstances on your part such as DUI, or reckless driving, there would not even be a question.

    If you defended yourself with a Louiville slugger and had taped up the Handle for a better grip during ball games, it is an inhanced weapon by this logic.

    Now, where it might come up is in a Civil trial. Even though you are found innocent of a criminal offense, you can still be sued. Now we are talking a different set of rules, and beyond a shadow of a doubt is replaced by another standard. If you are going to get screwed, civil litigation is where you stand the biggest risk.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    FYI, there is no such thing as an inhanced firearm charge.
    The charge is "inhanced" because of the use of the firearm during the comission of a crime.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  11. #26
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Oh, don't forget that they will confiscate your PC and be aware of your posts here on this forum. They'll try to make an issue out of that too.
    I am not sure what authority gives the DA any right to confiscate a person's PC simply because they were involved in an SD shooting. Perhaps you can cite such a case for our edification.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Anyway I personally recomend that unless a trigger is just impossible, there's no reason to lighten it. Smoothing is not lightening. I (this is just me) believe that the shooter should master the firearm.... not that the firearm should master the shooter.
    I can see your point, but at the same time I disagree myself. I'm OK with the smoothness of the trigger on my M&P .40c, but I've given thought to installing an Apex trigger system in it to lighten it up. Simple reasons really. It'd make it more comfortable for me to shoot for one. Not necessarily improve performance, but just a matter of comfort for me. Then there's the fact that I just like to tinker with things. I built my own computer and upgrade it on a regular basis, my paintball gun is barely recognizable as the original model anymore and my Jeep is about the same.

    I like to make things mine. I like to be intimately familiar with their workings, to the point that I feel good making adjustments. 3/4 of the adjustments to my Jeep and my paintball gun have little to no effect on the actual function, they just make them mine. Make them more comfortable for me to drive and use. I wouldn't adjust the trigger to make it "more deadly" or because I thought it was hindering my performance with it. I want to do it because I want to do it.

    "This is my rifle/computer/paintball gun/Jeep/pistol. There are many like it, but this one is MINE."
    My blog

    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    In Texas I could shoot somebody with depleted uranium ammo....if they even made it for handguns,and as long as it's ruled justified by a grand jury nothing will happen
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  14. #29
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Now, where it might come up is in a Civil trial. Even though you are found innocent of a criminal offense, you can still be sued. Now we are talking a different set of rules, and beyond a shadow of a doubt is replaced by another standard. If you are going to get screwed, civil litigation is where you stand the biggest risk.
    Thankfully my state has enacted legislation preventing civil suits if you are not found guilty of a crime in a self defense case. Another reason I enjoy living here.

    Arizona Revised Statute 13-413. No civil liability for justified conduct

    No person in this state shall be subject to civil liability for engaging in conduct otherwise justified pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.
    All of the justification is covered in chapter 4 Arizona Revised Statutes

    So they can file, but the court won't hear it.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Thankfully my state has enacted legislation preventing civil suits if you are not found guilty of a crime in a self defense case. Another reason I enjoy living here.
    Colorado has the same protection; we were one of the first states to do so, back in 1985

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