Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me) - Page 3

Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me)

This is a discussion on Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am proud to be a member of this forum! Much good advice given. All I'll add is that the decision to drive away, or ...

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Thread: Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me)

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I am proud to be a member of this forum!

    Much good advice given.

    All I'll add is that the decision to drive away, or get out of the car and fight on foot, is not an easy one. If you think you can drive away, then do so. BUT - you don't want to get into a situation where this nutjob might follow you with his own car, and try to run you off the road, follow you home, etc.

    If you decide NOT to drive away for this reason, then getting out of the car is a wise tactical move. A car is not cover - it will not stop bullets, unlike on TV. A car will not even protect you from a knife - it is really easy to break the side glass on a car with a pointed tool. Get away from the car, so you can move, and get to some real cover.

    OP - get some training, and listen to the wise advice you have been given.

    Most on these forums carry a weapon for decades and never need it - you carry for one day and had to draw already...what are the odds?

    Glad it turned out ok - but it isn't over. Report the incident to the police.
    Tzadik likes this.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  2. #32
    Senior Moderator
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    Go find a gun store that sells Jon Gutmacher's book Florida Firearms.

    Today.

    Then, read it cover to cover.

    We all make mistakes, and there are always ways to improve our responses.

    Take this as a learning experience, and hopefully it will be a catalyst to:

    1. Get the book and do some serious study, and
    2. Get some quality professional training.

    You came out OK, and your mistakes only cost you a bit of ribbing on an internet forum. This time. Use the opportunity to learn, OK?

    Glad you and your girlfriend are OK. That's the most important thing.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRizzo View Post
    C) When you decide to carry a firearm, you give up certain things... Like getting into fights, and other **** like that... You get to let stuff go... You dont get out of your car and provoke situations... You dont get to be macho in front of your g/f... You turn the other cheek... You play by the rules... You act like a fine upstanding citizen... Because as soon as you dont keep your cool, as soon as a situation goes south on you... THere are 100 people who will come out of the wood work (Including D.A.'s and civil attorney's) who will be foaming at the mouth to crucify you and every other citizen who chooses to legally carry firearms... Your actions not only represent you but all of us as well...

    Please, I beg of you, try to remember that next time.....
    He's right.
    getting out of the car was a mistake. The car is a sanctuary and a weapon. Stay there.
    Call 911 and report the guy and his tag number.
    do NOT talk to him or further antagonize him. Drive away as you report the incident.
    Think of all the ways you could avoid the conflict.
    Your gun is the last resort to be used only in the gravest extreme. Read M. Ayoob.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    My two cents worth.

    All around good job. In the future though...

    1) Stay in your vehical
    2) Dont allow anyone with a knife to get that close
    3) Call the police. If not during the incident, very soon after. If it's over be sure to tell the police that it's over.


    Spuk!
    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    He's right.
    getting out of the car was a mistake. The car is a sanctuary and a weapon. Stay there.
    Call 911 and report the guy and his tag number.
    do NOT talk to him or further antagonize him. Drive away as you report the incident.
    Think of all the ways you could avoid the conflict.
    Your gun is the last resort to be used only in the gravest extreme. Read M. Ayoob.
    LEO's have told me and will tell you, "The first one to call the police is considered the victim until proven otherwise".
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
    Richard M Nixon
    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.
    Jeff Cooper

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Your CC is the last tool you ever deploy in the most dire of circumstances. NOT an ace in the hole during a challenge. You may have the legal right to stand your ground, but I guarantee you, in a situation like this, as you described it, you and your lawyer will have a very hard time justifying that in court.

    I do hope you stick around here and do some reading on other threads and topics. There is much to learn here.
    Extremely wise words...about the lawyer...and about what you can, and will, learn if you hang around here and participate...

    Everyone else has pointed out the errors you made...

    We are all glad you are alive and can share your experience with us....now, some of the smarter folks here want to keep you alive and free so that you can become the "one" handing down advice and good information to a 21 year old some day...
    VCDL Member
    "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
    Theodore Roosevelt

  6. #36
    Member Array KimBobTex's Avatar
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    "The first one to call 911 wins!" This according to my CHL instructor & former LEO.

    We were taught to call 911 ASAP anytime you have to draw your firearm in public, describe the threat & state that you want to press charges, even if the BG is long gone. If he calls 911 & goes on record first that he was threatened with AMWAG in a parking lot, it's your word against his, especially if there are no witnesses willing to stick around & support you with the truth.

    Granted, most of those willing to pull this garbage are also not those that are willing, or can afford, to call & interact with LEO's, but you never know. Even if he splits & has his girlfriend call 911 anonymously ... "I just drove by McDonalds & saw a crazy man in the parking lot standing outside his white Chevy pickup waving a gun at everybody, the license plate is ... ", then suddenly you're the one in the hot seat explaining yourself. Just because there are witnesses, doesn't mean they are on your side or willing to come forward. You have to assume you are always & totally on your own in that regard. Simply put ... "CYA"
    Tzadik likes this.
    Asked by a CNN reporter "What do you feel when you shoot a terrorist"?, the Marine sniper simply shrugged & replied "recoil".

    Now more than ever, we are at war on our home soil ... WAKE UP & arm our troops when they are on home soil!

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florida View Post
    This may sound immature but he was asking for a fight and I was going to give it to him, Where I'm from a little fight in the parking lot is just that, a fight. I've been in many fights and this was just going to be another...whatever. However, this is the first time someone challenged me to a fight and then decided to pull a knife, it fliped the entire script. I know it seems you guys play by the book, to the T (not being mean at all, it's good, and informing me on the legality of things is excellent, I truly appreciate it and will use it in the future) but come on when you were 21 and someone challanged you a fight did you just roll up your windows and call the police? Relax. I know owning a gun is a HUGE responsibility and I don't take it lightly. Maybe I did a few things wrong but, I had every right to pull my weapon.
    I am sorry to say it but from this response I am not sure you should have a concealed carry permit. We, as concealed carry holders, have an obligation to try to avoid the fight if at all possible. We have the responsibility to rise above petty B.S. and walk away from a confrontation. He drew a knife, you drew a gun. That is a level of disparity of force. When he got out of his car you could have driven away (If you were blocked in by another car, using your car to force that car back OR driving over a lawn would be a ton better than the type of confrontation that happened), called the police and filed a complaint for assault 3rd, and called McDonalds to get your food on a return visit. (let us not forget the food - i still haven't had breakfast)

    I have had many people attempt to start a fight with me. I do ANYTHING I have to to avoid using deadly force. I am not going to live on my knees, but I sure as hell would rather drive away from a fight than shoot someone over the exchange of juvenile words.

    Robert Heinlein said it well: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
    ridurall likes this.

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    You said it, not me... That's exactly what it was. And why I'm not upset that minimum age for ccw in my state is 23.
    Didn't it just recently drop to 21 here?

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florida View Post
    This may sound immature but he was asking for a fight and I was going to give it to him, Where I'm from a little fight in the parking lot is just that, a fight. I've been in many fights and this was just going to be another...whatever. However, this is the first time someone challenged me to a fight and then decided to pull a knife, it fliped the entire script. I know it seems you guys play by the book, to the T (not being mean at all, it's good, and informing me on the legality of things is excellent, I truly appreciate it and will use it in the future) but come on when you were 21 and someone challanged you a fight did you just roll up your windows and call the police? Relax. I know owning a gun is a HUGE responsibility and I don't take it lightly. Maybe I did a few things wrong but, I had every right to pull my weapon.
    I'll be the first to admit that I'm a bit of a hothead when it comes to this kind of thing, but you have to control it when carrying. Before I started carrying, I would've done the same thing, but now I know better. Think about it for a minute, what happens if he manages to knock you out, and then notices you have a gun? He grabs YOUR gun and shoots you, then turns around and shoots your gf. However unlikely that is, it is possible.

    SA and avoidance are your best tools when CC'ing, not your gun or your fists. I'd suggest some more reading and a reevaluation of your reasons for carrying. Hopefully it puts things into perspective.

    All that aside, I'm glad you came out of it OK. It may seem like everyone here is beating a dead horse, but we're trying to help you understand what you did wrong and how you can prevent these kinds of situations in the future.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    Ditto X 30
    I think, therefore I am...

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  11. #41
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florida View Post
    I get it. I should have called the cops. I'm 21, just started carrying, never thought I'd actually have to pull it. You guys are missing the entire point of the post. I've never been happier to have decided to start carrying. It saved me from possible great injury/death. Assured me that me and the girl I love were protected. This was me sharing an event that happened to me where it proved it's essential to carry a weapon. I appreciate the constructive critism, I myself knew after I should have called the police. Look at the bright side. Going to sleep, night.
    Unfortunately, I have learned on this board that if you make a mistake and post about it, even a self-admitted mistake, prepare to be crucified by the masses.

    I, for one, appreciate your story. Every time I hear a story, even when a mistake was made, it helps me be better prepared for when a similar situation may happen to me. I have to admit in a case like this I may have not bothered to call the cops either since nobody was actually injured and it appeared to be ended by the sight of the gun. However, after reading some of the possible outcomes pointed out here, I think in the future if it happened to me, I'd probably go ahead and call. That way my side of the story is recorded before anyone elses.

    Oh.. and I might also add, I would have probably gotten out of the car too. It appears most people on this board would disagree. But my reason is that if somebody is approaching me with the intent to beat me up, I feel very vulnerable in the car. I've had martial arts training but most of that is useless when I'm pinned inside of a car. So if there is going to be a fight, I'd rather be on my feet. Also glass can be broken easily. Now, on the other hand, if I im in a position where I could just drive away before he got to me, that is another case entirely.
    Tzadik likes this.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Unfortunately, I have learned on this board that if you make a mistake and post about it, even a self-admitted mistake, prepare to be crucified by the masses.
    I think in many cases it is simply the tact used when relaying tips and advice. It is hard on the Internet to relay inflection, so always take things accordingly. From my experience on this forum most of the people here are here to get and give advice from their life experiences, then there are others... Keep in mind that there are those on this forum who have never fired a shot in aggression and they only think they know what they will do when/if the time comes. No one truly knows until it happens, myself included.

    From what I can see, IMO, many agree that a 911 call should have been made as soon as possible. Some disagree on getting out or staying in the vehicle. All while others question his right to carry based on personality traits.

    Florida, you handled yourself pretty well from my vantage point. Yes, there are things that you may want to work on if there is a next time, just as Matt stated "we all make mistakes". The important thing is you and your GF are alive and the hot head left with only the holes God gave him.

    I personally think that, based on how McDonald's drive ins are in my area, I would have stayed in the car because if this guy comes at me I can pull forward and take off. This may be different based on the parking lot configuration, but you could still throw it in reverse and catch the guy off guard a bit until you can go forward. 10thmtn is dead on, a car will not stop a bullet, but then again neither will standing toe to toe in a parking lot. This is a call you, and only you, have to make at the time of the incident.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Is FL a Castle Doctrine state as TX is, point is in TX your car is considered a part of your home just as a bed room is?

    By staying in your car call 911 and letting him attack you, you may have a justified self defense situation if you have to use your firearm?

    Hope you enjoy your Glock and maybe marry the girl friend, she knows you will stand up when the trouble is there, just do it as wisely as possible!!!!
    TSiWRX likes this.
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness,
    nor the arrow for its swiftness,
    nor the warrior for his glory.
    I love only that which they defend.
    -J.R.R. Tolkien

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    It's kind of ironic isn't it?
    We carry a firearm to protect ourselves, saying we are not one of the sheep.
    Yet carrying that firearm has us avoiding situations we normally might not.
    I know I am a much calmer person when I have my firearm with me.
    ErnieNWillis, TSiWRX and Tzadik like this.

  15. #45
    Senior Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    Is FL a Castle Doctrine state as TX is, point is in TX your car is considered a part of your home just as a bed room is?

    By staying in your car call 911 and letting him attack you, you may have a justified self defense situation if you have to use your firearm?

    Hope you enjoy your Glock and maybe marry the girl friend, she knows you will stand up when the trouble is there, just do it as wisely as possible!!!!
    Yes, FL law treats your occupied vehicle like your home.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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