Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me) - Page 5

Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me)

This is a discussion on Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's the thing. Not calling the police could have been a life changing experience. Let's say someone saw the gun being drawn - but didn't ...

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Thread: Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me)

  1. #61
    Senior Moderator
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    Here's the thing. Not calling the police could have been a life changing experience.

    Let's say someone saw the gun being drawn - but didn't see the knife - and called the police.

    Drawing a gun on someone in Florida can easily be charged as Aggravated Assault with a Firearm.

    Now, the "victim" hasn't called the police, which will in many peoples' minds carry with it some presumption of guilt. Let's say the PD stops the "victim" and finds the gun. We now have a third party witness saying "that guy pulled a gun on this other guy." The witness' story is corroborated by the finding of the firearm by the police. The original assailant is nowhere to be found.

    It is now the "victim"'s word against the corroborated story of the third-party witness. Add in the failure to call the police, and you're on a bad road.

    Did I mention that Aggravated Assault involving a firearm carries a minimum, mandatory three year prison term in Florida?

    Facing that possibility, would a plea to a lesser change seem attractive?

    Again, I urge the OP to buy and read Jon Gutmacher's book ASAP.

    Matt
    SIGguy229, Bark'n, TSiWRX and 1 others like this.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I absolutely would have also. Being without mobility during a confrontation is not a strategy I plan to employ.
    Is the car not mobile? Is waiting for food worth taking a life?

    Stuck in traffic is one thing...no where to go, etc. Driving off while waiting for food at a drive through is something totally different.

    Not to mention, you're driving a 2,000 lb weapon.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Florida,

    In your mind you thought it was just going to be another fight and you were willing to get it on.
    You were willing to get it on while you were carrying a firearm.
    You were willing to get it on in the belief that you were going to kick some a$$, teach this guy a lesson that he made a mistake messing with you.
    Were you willing to get it on with someone who might have kicked your a$$ and taken your firearm from you?
    Don't think that can happen to you?
    There's always someone out there badder than you or me or most others in this world.
    They like to fight and go looking for an opportunity to hurt someone.
    Prisons are filled with these type of social misfits.
    Glad it worked out for you especially on the first day you were carrying your new Glock.
    Hope you test fired it before carrying it.

    OS
    9MMare and TSiWRX like this.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  4. #64
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoghunter84 View Post
    Im sure if anyone here has to draw their weapon they are not going to stop to think hey am I doing this right? All that goes out the window when your life is in danger. I would have done the same thing he did by getting out of the car to leave his GF in the safety of the vehicle and lure the guy away from her. Cant do a whole lot if you are buckled in a car and a guy is stabbing you in the neck. But as everyone else said the OP should have called the police to report a crazy.
    I agree whole heartedly. I like to employ the phrase "I'd rather by judged by 12 than carried by 6" So in this situation, assuming my car was blocked in, I would still get out of the car because that is my best chance for survival. At that point I'm not going to be thinking too much about how the courts will look at it.

  5. #65
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Have you tried the Krystals drive turu, I believe it to be more user friendly. IMO, the BIgMac attack just isn't worth it...
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I agree whole heartedly. I like to employ the phrase "I'd rather by judged by 12 than carried by 6"
    The common cry of the untrained and uninformed. The smart money is on "I'd rather know what I am doing so that I am neither judged by 12 nor carried by 6".

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    So in this situation, assuming my car was blocked in, I would still get out of the car because that is my best chance for survival. At that point I'm not going to be thinking too much about how the courts will look at it.
    Do you understand the concept of being a "mutual combatant"? Do you understand the key differences in Florida law between defending yourself inside your occupied vehicle as opposed to outside?

    Honestly, your comment "at that point I'm not going to be thinking too much about how the courts will look at it" is frightening. Be assured, there are more than a few people sitting in prison cells who thought the exact same thing.

    Matt
    TSiWRX and jwhite75 like this.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I agree whole heartedly. I like to employ the phrase "I'd rather by judged by 12 than carried by 6" So in this situation, assuming my car was blocked in, I would still get out of the car because that is my best chance for survival. At that point I'm not going to be thinking too much about how the courts will look at it.
    That's why you should know the laws of the state you are in...Did you see MattInFla's post #46? You are in a better defensive position in your vehicle...anyone who wants to break in to your vehicle while you have your gun drawn on them is asking to get shot....especially if they have a knife. Not to mention, you can drive over the curb to get away if needed...honk your horn....get attention on what is happening.

    Otherwise, getting out of the car can/will be viewed by bystanders/lawyers as escalating the event. Staying in your car, in a defensive posture, firearm at the ready while your passenger is on the phone with 911 is more justifiable than weapons drawn at 20 paces.

    You really need to take some training. There are times to get out of the car....this isn't one of them.
    TSiWRX and JD like this.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  8. #68
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    Three things you did seriously wrong, in my opinion. First of all, you should have raised your windows immediately. That is an act of safety. Secondly, you should never have gotten out of you car. I don't know about other states, but I do know that in Louisiana, if you get out of your vehicle in a road rage situation, its a act of aggression. Third, like everyone else said, call the police immediately. I would have called 911 on speaker as soon as he slammed on his brakes 30 yards away and got out of his vehicle.

    My harsh words may annoy some, but just my opinion.
    ^^^This^^^ plus a THOUSAND!

    One more thing you should have done is "DRIVE AWAY"!
    Driving away does TWO very important things!

    ONE: It creates distance.
    TWO: It removes you from the seen of the FIGHT.

    REMEMBER: (The best way to avoid a confrontation is NOT be there!)

    You can aways go around the building and return for your order. I'm gald you're OK. But, you did make some mistakes that could have been TRAGIC!

  9. #69
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    Well I think what I would have done is first got the license plate or like they said had your girlfriend get it. And then once he pulled the knife I would have just lifted my shirt and showed him that i had a gun and tell him that is not a smart move pulling his knife and that he needs to just get in his car and leave. Then as soon as he got in his car call the police and follow him to have him arrested.


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  10. #70
    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    There has been some good advise given, advise that should be followed if something similar happens again.

    On the other hand based on what I've read the vast majority of situations where a firearm is used defensively don't involve firing the gun and go unreported to the police. This is based on surveys done by individuals like John Lott (More Guns, Less Crime and Bias Against Guns).
    Martial Blade Concepts, Jiu-Jitsu & Eskrima NRA, GOA, NYSRPA, LIF, Old Bethpage Rifle & Pistol Club

  11. #71
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    Hopefully eveyone here learned a valuable lesson. To be prepared, you need to practice and think through many scenairo's as well as know your states laws and how they are applied. I have heard of many instances were the victim becomes the attacker in the states eyes because of how the laws are written or because how the victim poorly handled a situation. When you signed up to carry you were given a huge load of responsibility to carry wisely and legaly. Do your homework, so you can do both wel.

    l

  12. #72
    Distinguished Member Array orangevol's Avatar
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    You may not like some of the responses you have received, but consider this a real life learning experience. There are folks on this forum with a lot more experience and wisdom, (just because we have lived and carried longer) that have offered good criticism and advice. Your immaturity shows in some of your replys...

    "That's it lol, just wanted to share" You tell us about the need to pull a gun on someone and then end the story with laugh out loud??? This isn't a harmless video game you just played on your X-Box!

    "This may sound immature but he was asking for a fight and I was going to give it to him, Where I'm from a little fight in the parking lot is just that, a fight. I've been in many fights and this was just going to be another...whatever"

    Your ststement is very immature. This is not just another fight...YOU'RE NOW CARRYING A GUN!!! This increases your level of responsibility.

    As others have already stated...the best fight is the one you avoid! You clearly became equal to the man with a knife when you stepped out of your car. Your first response should have been to simply drive off and dial 911.

    Carrying a gun for personal protection is a huge responsibility and should be the very LAST option in a confrontation, you skipped past your best option to just drive away and chose the last one first. But, then again you would have missed that good McDonalds breakfast.
    Proud NRA member

  13. #73
    Member Array Florida's Avatar
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    There's a thin line between constructive critism, and being rude/condecending. I stand by my actions as I was in the situation and y'all weren't. I would do it all again the same, except this time I would call the cops. I will not be a sitting duck to a mad man approaching my girlfriend and I. I will get out of the car, and I will lure him away, in the event things turn ugly, he's no where near her. I'm very well trained with guns as I've been shooting them my entire life. I know gun safety and what to do in order to protect myself and the ones I love. I diffused the situation by being 'macho' and showing him that trying to stab me would only result in him dying. Thanks to the ones who weren't a jerk about what I already knew I did wrong. I work in a family business that's open late nights and always has a lot of cash on hand. Our type of business' are robbed all the time. We all participate in gun safety classes as well as what to do in critical situations.

  14. #74
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    This may sound immature but he was asking for a fight and I was going to give it to him, Where I'm from a little fight in the parking lot is just that, a fight. I've been in many fights and this was just going to be another...whatever. However, this is the first time someone challenged me to a fight and then decided to pull a knife, it fliped the entire script. I know it seems you guys play by the book, to the T (not being mean at all, it's good, and informing me on the legality of things is excellent, I truly appreciate it and will use it in the future) but come on when you were 21 and someone challanged you a fight did you just roll up your windows and call the police? Relax. I know owning a gun is a HUGE responsibility and I don't take it lightly. Maybe I did a few things wrong but, I had every right to pull my weapon.
    I honestly wasn't going to get on your case at all about getting out of your car. Everyone already said that you should have called the police. You get that.

    My original reply to this thread was to tell you I think you did a decent job despite the few mishaps. It's easy to analyze things after the fact but, you're right, things happen really fast. When you are new to this something as simple as getting out of the car could easily slip your mind.

    BUT.. when I read the above I'm not joking when I say that my jaw dropped.

    When you are armed with a firearm a fight in a parking lot is NEVER "Just that, a fight." Whether you like it or not, everywhere you go and in everything you do you are bringing a firearm into the situation. You get into a scrap in the McDonald's parking lot, in the course of the fight he sees or feels your gun and is able to get a hold of it. A Glock does not have a difficult manual of arms.. he points, he shoots and you end up breaking the cardinal rule of never getting shot with your own gun. Not to mention you just provided a murderer with a handgun and your girlfriend is now completely defenseless.

    And to answer your question of "when you were 21 and someone challanged you a fight did you just roll up your windows and call the police?"

    ABSOLUTELY! Because by the age of 20 I was mentally preparing myself for the responsibility of carrying a firearm and I embraced that deescalation and avoidance may save more than my own life someday. I was carrying a gun within a week of my 21st birthday and while I was/am not perfect in my decisions, one decision I have preemptively made is never to respond to fighting challenges. A breakfast at McDonald's is not worth a life. It isn't even worth a nose or a fist or a stitch or a headache.

    "I know owning a gun is a HUGE responsibility and I don't take it lightly. Maybe I did a few things wrong but, I had every right to pull my weapon."
    Yes, you had every right to pull your weapon. I won't question that. You were threatened with lethal force. You had every right to defend yourself. But you admitted that you were taking the fight to him... over what? A McDonald's order? If you truly knew what a huge responsibility carrying a gun was you wouldn't be looking for that fight. You essentially said that you brought a gunfight to someone who got mad because you took too long to order your breakfast at McDonald's. Can you appreciate just how... stupid that is?

    And.. to me.. that is the exact definition of taking it lightly.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florida View Post
    There's a thin line between constructive critism, and being rude/condecending. I stand by my actions as I was in the situation and y'all weren't. I would do it all again the same, except this time I would call the cops. I will not be a sitting duck to a mad man approaching my girlfriend and I. I will get out of the car, and I will lure him away, in the event things turn ugly, he's no where near her. I'm very well trained with guns as I've been shooting them my entire life. I know gun safety and what to do in order to protect myself and the ones I love. I diffused the situation by being 'macho' and showing him that trying to stab me would only result in him dying. Thanks to the ones who weren't a jerk about what I already knew I did wrong. I work in a family business that's open late nights and always has a lot of cash on hand. Our type of business' are robbed all the time. We all participate in gun safety classes as well as what to do in critical situations.
    Do you understand the difference under Florida law between defending yourself while inside the vehicle and doing so outside the vehicle?

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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