Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me)

This is a discussion on Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by JDlewis Well I think what I would have done is first got the license plate or like they said had your girlfriend ...

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Thread: Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me)

  1. #76
    Distinguished Member Array orangevol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDlewis View Post
    Well I think what I would have done is first got the license plate or like they said had your girlfriend get it. And then once he pulled the knife I would have just lifted my shirt and showed him that i had a gun and tell him that is not a smart move pulling his knife and that he needs to just get in his car and leave. Then as soon as he got in his car call the police and follow him to have him arrested.


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    Sorry JDlewis...very bad advise!!!

    Lifting your shirt and showing your gun is absolutely the wrong thing to do. You're not carrying a gun to be used as a scare tactic...it's a defensive tool, only to be used in a life or death situation.

    Following the guy? Now you have become the agressor, and it's his word against yours, "but officer I tried to leave, but this guy was following me..."

    Hope you take this as constructive criticism.
    Proud NRA member

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  3. #77
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    One day your machismo may very well result in you eating asphalt while some officers run your info. It may even result in charges that result in you losing your rights to own a firearm forever then all of your vast years of knowledge and training at the wise old age of 21 will do you no good.
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  4. #78
    Member Array guardmt's Avatar
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    Florida, Better everyone gives you the cold hard truth on here then you sitting in the court room getting prosecuted, even though your not the one who started the rage. People here on this forum are kind enough to share the truth and can explain it to you better from their experiences. You need to call the police ASAP, Interning for the local PD I can not tell you how annoying it is for an officer to get a call and listen to a person report a crime that happened yesterday or a week ago, then have the officer explain to them why failing to report a crime can turn the tables against someone who wasn't in the wrong. Right now, seeing that the guy with the knife didn't call 911 and has half a brain you, need to take advantage of that before one of his friends with a full brain explains how he can turn this in his favor.
    Dont call 911, get your local PD number (reason why is because your life is not in danger right now)
    Listen to the automated message and click the number to speak with a officer and file a report or wait for the operator to answer and tell her/him you need to report a crime.
    You will be forwarded to a officer on duty.

    What I see happening is the officer explaining to you what everyone else has pretty much summed up on here and telling you nothing can be done because you didn't call 911 right when that situation happened.
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike

  5. #79
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    The common cry of the untrained and uninformed. The smart money is on "I'd rather know what I am doing so that I am neither judged by 12 nor carried by 6".



    Do you understand the concept of being a "mutual combatant"? Do you understand the key differences in Florida law between defending yourself inside your occupied vehicle as opposed to outside?

    Honestly, your comment "at that point I'm not going to be thinking too much about how the courts will look at it" is frightening. Be assured, there are more than a few people sitting in prison cells who thought the exact same thing.

    Matt
    sitting in prison cells, but at least they are alive. That's my point. I'd rather go to prison for a few years than be dead, and possibly my girlfriend too. You keep mentioning over and over about Florida law. No, I don't know about it because I live in Texas. in my case, we are not required to retreat from an assault. But even if I didn't know that, my decision to get out of the car would remain the same, again because I would not be in a good defensive position inside the car. I've said repeatedly that I would drive off given the chance, but the OP still hasn't answered the question of if he was blocked in or not. So you'll notice in each case I said that I would only get out of the car if I knew an assault was coming and I had no means to drive off.

  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    sitting in prison cells, but at least they are alive. That's my point. I'd rather go to prison for a few years than be dead, and possibly my girlfriend too.
    Alive but in prison means you failed. You see, it's not just the actual gunfight you need to win. You also need to win the legal fight after the smoke clears.

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    You keep mentioning over and over about Florida law. No, I don't know about it because I live in Texas.
    And yet, you keep giving advise about how to handle an incident under Florida law....

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    in my case, we are not required to retreat from an assault. But even if I didn't know that, my decision to get out of the car would remain the same, again because I would not be in a good defensive position inside the car. I've said repeatedly that I would drive off given the chance, but the OP still hasn't answered the question of if he was blocked in or not. So you'll notice in each case I said that I would only get out of the car if I knew an assault was coming and I had no means to drive off.
    There is a difference between retreat and leaving the safety of your vehicle to go engage in an impromptu boxing match in a parking lot. This is why I asked if you understood the meaning of "mutual combatant".

    Let me re-phrase my question, by posing it differently. If you were in your home, and a guy was outside screaming at you, would you go outside to fight him, or remain indoors prepared to defend yourself if he broke in? In which case would the castle doctrine protect you?

    Matt
    TSiWRX likes this.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  7. #81
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florida View Post
    This may sound immature but he was asking for a fight and I was going to give it to him, Where I'm from a little fight in the parking lot is just that, a fight. I've been in many fights and this was just going to be another...whatever. However, this is the first time someone challenged me to a fight and then decided to pull a knife, it fliped the entire script. I know it seems you guys play by the book, to the T (not being mean at all, it's good, and informing me on the legality of things is excellent, I truly appreciate it and will use it in the future) but come on when you were 21 and someone challanged you a fight did you just roll up your windows and call the police? Relax. I know owning a gun is a HUGE responsibility and I don't take it lightly. Maybe I did a few things wrong but, I had every right to pull my weapon.
    I'm sure others will say this too, but you should read Kind Of Blue's thread on almost drawing at the gas station in the Scenarios section.

    You cannot react to situations when you are carrying the same way that you would if not carrying. You will be held to a higher legal standard and a higher standard of behavior, often referred to as The High Road.

    ANY escalation on your part will be your downfall, ANY. Because it it will be used against you in court if you end up using deadly force if you had ANY other options, like leaving.

    IMO you should never have gotten out of your car. If the knife had come out then, I would have driven away....and a car can be a pretty good lethal weapon too if it comes to that.

    And using your age as an excuse is ridiculous. The law is the same no matter what your age, as are your responsibilities as a gun owner and carrier. IMO you are implying that 21 yr olds are too immature to carry (which I dont agree with)., since you feel you were in the right here to challenge the aggressor.
    TSiWRX likes this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  8. #82
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    sitting in prison cells, but at least they are alive. That's my point. I'd rather go to prison for a few years than be dead, and possibly my girlfriend too. You keep mentioning over and over about Florida law. No, I don't know about it because I live in Texas. in my case, we are not required to retreat from an assault. But even if I didn't know that, my decision to get out of the car would remain the same, again because I would not be in a good defensive position inside the car. I've said repeatedly that I would drive off given the chance, but the OP still hasn't answered the question of if he was blocked in or not. So you'll notice in each case I said that I would only get out of the car if I knew an assault was coming and I had no means to drive off.
    You sir still need that training. Have you ever been in a situation were you have had to deploy your weapon? If you havnt please do not give poor advice to someone new to carrying.

    To the OP... You handle the situation OK. You and your GF are alive. As others have said, call the police. Getting out of your car, that could be sticky. MattFL has covered that, please take his advise. If you cant control your MACHO side PUT THE DAM GUN AWAY. Im not getting on you, just some advise from someone that has seen it before.....Take it anyway you would like...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  9. #83
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    The guy had a knife, not a hammer in his hand.

    As soon as he gets out of his car, the windows go up and you prepare to exit by driving away. Have you ever tried to get into a locked car with just your bare hands, or with a knife? Not happening. You didn't need to draw the guy away from your gf- she would not have been in danger in a locked car with secured windows up.

    Drop the bravado and try to absorb what some of the experienced people here are telling you. At 21 you just don't have the worldly experience or firearms expertise you think you have.

  10. #84
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    wow---6 pages and you posted not 12 hours ago

    so by now you have called the police and
    have decided that a lot of people have opinions much different than you had anticipated. or like.
    well, I'm here to say you did not do everything wrong.
    you are still here in one piece and surviving is worth something, yes?

    everything else--let me to backstroke a moment and say that every story has at least 3 sides--yours, theirs and somewhere in between--what really happened.

    as to how and what you say occurred-- again, good that you made it home unhurt and now put the gun away. only take it out to train with (formerly and at the range)
    and when you have clear in your mind the reason a gun is carried, and your thinking matches your professed speed, carry again.

    that you survived your multiple mistakes is proof of a higher being looking over ua.
    i suggest, has have most everyone else here, that you get training and your mind set straightened out.

    no one is saying you are a bad person, just get training before the next time which may save you from the next time.

    ------------------

    youngguns--what would I have done?

    been there more than once. i put the car in gear and opened the door enough to put one foot on the ground; left arm on the top of the door,
    right hand on the top of the steering wheel. thats keeping it close to my right hip as a by-the-way.
    as 'they' approached (once with knives, once with chains) i let it be that my coat bloused open so they could see what was on my hip.
    not but 10 feet from the nose of my car they seem to decide that some place else needs them more.

    call in a disturbance so my voice is on tape and its win/win--everyone gets to have dinner at home.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  11. #85
    Member Array younggun's Avatar
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    Everyone is getting on this kid about what he should have done.. and yes, 95% of us agree there were much better ways to handle this situation. With that being said, his intentions of his post were not to get ridiculed(whether he needs to or not) and preached it. It was more or less to say here is the situation I found myself in, this is what I did, I'm glad I live in the U S of A where I can legally carry.

    NOW, I am not by any means sticking up for him, it has been said and said again that he should have handled the situation MUCH differently. Agreed. I'd like to imagine myself in this situation...what would I have done?

    I'm new to CCW as well, handled guns for a little over 10 years, owned a hand gun since the day I turned 21 (2 years ago), and have been in numerous courses. That being said, I hope that if a situation like this arises(I pray it never does) I will handle it better, because of this forum, because of my training, and because I am required to do so by carrying a firearm on my hip.

    SO, to all my fellow DC forum members, I say thank you! I dedicate my CCW life to this forum to LEARN, hopefully the OP has learned as well.
    younggun
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  12. #86
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Unfortunately, I have learned on this board that if you make a mistake and post about it, even a self-admitted mistake, prepare to be crucified by the masses.

    I, for one, appreciate your story. Every time I hear a story, even when a mistake was made, it helps me be better prepared for when a similar situation may happen to me. I have to admit in a case like this I may have not bothered to call the cops either since nobody was actually injured and it appeared to be ended by the sight of the gun. However, after reading some of the possible outcomes pointed out here, I think in the future if it happened to me, I'd probably go ahead and call. That way my side of the story is recorded before anyone elses.

    Oh.. and I might also add, I would have probably gotten out of the car too. It appears most people on this board would disagree. But my reason is that if somebody is approaching me with the intent to beat me up, I feel very vulnerable in the car. I've had martial arts training but most of that is useless when I'm pinned inside of a car. So if there is going to be a fight, I'd rather be on my feet. Also glass can be broken easily. Now, on the other hand, if I im in a position where I could just drive away before he got to me, that is another case entirely.
    Most people are being very polite and constructive...it's just that most are saying the same thing. But many do convey somewhat different perspectives....who knows what will make the right connection with the OP?

    This is a place to come and learn. I know I have.

    And FWIW, I disagree about being 'trapped' the car...he wasnt. He could have driven away. (And window glass isnt that easy to break, not for an empty-handed guy)
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  13. #87
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    I dig it, Florida. It sucks that the legal system is at a point where you could get in a lot of trouble for this, but I don't see any problem with what you did from a logical perspective.

    Some maniac yells at you and you're supposed to immediately call 911? Maybe that's the right thing to do, but it's also weak. I say handle your business.

    He gets out of his car? My guess is his car is parked directly in front of yours, and you have a small lane to move around. Well you could try to move around him, but he could easily block your path or damage the vehicle.

    So you could have probably stayed in your car a little while longer, but that could have also been a bad situation.

    So a guy comes at you with a knife and you pull a gun. Seem fine - you avoided a deadly situation.

    Cheers

  14. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoghunter84 View Post
    Im sure if anyone here has to draw their weapon they are not going to stop to think hey am I doing this right? All that goes out the window when your life is in danger. I would have done the same thing he did by getting out of the car to leave his GF in the safety of the vehicle and lure the guy away from her. Cant do a whole lot if you are buckled in a car and a guy is stabbing you in the neck. But as everyone else said the OP should have called the police to report a crazy.
    He put his own life in danger by getting out of the car. When he did, the guy pulled a knife on him. Knife wont do much damage when you are in a car....esp in a car driving away.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #89
    Member Array Florida's Avatar
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    I was hardly able to drive away, by the time I knew he meant business and realized he wanted to take this to the next level, I had to get out. My windows were down, and my car was off. I was definitely not going to sit there and race against time in trying to start my car, roll my windows up, and drive away within 15 seconds. It's impossible. I'm willing ot bet if any of y'all were in my situation it would have been handled in a close manner as I did. Don't be so quick to judge. I choose to carry gun to protect myself. And that's exactly what I did. I'm not posting on here again because it's starting to get very repetative in the demeaning manner y'all are chastising me. Thanks for the advice, I will follow and learned a lot just by posting one thread, however, ya'll should realize you get through to people a lot better when talking to them politely, and understanding. I came here to gain knowledge, not get ridiculed. And although those are one in another, some of you can certainly change the way you approach people.

  16. #90
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florida View Post
    she asked me to pull forward and they would bring me my food, so I did. As I'm waiting, with both my windows down, and car pulls up on the right hand side, and started cursing me out saying "you think it's cool to take forever to order your food, people have jobs," and immediately drove off. He drove about 30 yards away,
    I'm sorry....were you blocked in in front? Side? Possibly behind I guess, but why couldnt you drive away? Umm, the windows do roll up, dont they? And the car ignition still works? Srsly, you cant put up windows and start a car in 15 seconds? The minute you start your engine and start to move, it will alter your attacker's attitude. Are you afraid the guy you want to turn into pulp wont get out of the way?

    You got pissed off and wanted a piece. Let's not start changing the story here.

    You were sitting in the only lethal weapon you needed...and you left the safety of it.
    Old School and TSiWRX like this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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