Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me) - Page 7

Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me)

This is a discussion on Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You said you had pulled forward to get your order. Why was the car off? It would have taken about 5 seconds to turn the ...

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Thread: Today at McDonalds, Firearm drawn (by me)

  1. #91
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    You said you had pulled forward to get your order. Why was the car off?

    It would have taken about 5 seconds to turn the car on, and get the windows up. Agreed with 9mmare- your story changed too much. Very convenient for you.


  2. #92
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    Well, by this time I expect most everything had been said and rehashed many times. This is just the perspective of an older and hopefully wiser person.

    There are several things I would suggest you had done. You were doing fine, until the point you got out of your car to meet this person as they approached. Staying in your car would have been the smarter thing to do. Once he exited his car, you should have rolled up the windows and called 911. Leaving your vehicle and exchanging in a verbal altercation is only going to escalate the situation. If it had come to actual shots being fired, it could look like you were also looking for trouble.

    If he had attempted to enter your vehicle, then would have been the time to bring your gun into play. By then you would have had 911 operator on the line and there would be recorded evidence as to who exactly the aggressor was and that you had given him the chance to leave.

    Either way, you should have gotten his license plate number, and since you deployed your gun, call 911 and report the incident. Better a pre-emptive call for nothing, than a stop with several police cars surrounding you and police ordering you from your vehicle with guns drawn.

    All of us here were young at one time or another. We know the feeling of being young and bulletproof. With age comes the realization that we're not. Today you were lucky and things worked out in your favor. The next time you might not be so lucky.
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  3. #93
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    Hey Florida, now you can see why I posted what I did when I read your original post early this morning. I wanted you to at least have a little humor to start what I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt was going to be a REAL learning experience for you.

    Yup, you sure got chewed on but think of it as a very small price to pay for some excellent advice on how to work through similar situations in the future. I absolutely guarantee that 30 years from now you will see far more wisdom in what was said in this thread but for now, you have gleaned a ton of good insight and I know you'll consider it in future events.

    This is kind of like the first time you drove by yourself and got going a little too fast and maybe even lost control a bit but recovered and had to take a few deep breaths. Your situation at the golden arches is like that, you maybe went a bit too far in your bravado but you managed to survive and will incorporate changes in your future responses.

    Remember, there is no way to place inflections on what is typed so keep that in mind when you read peoples thoughts here they most likely are trying to convey a very emotional concept without the luxury of being able to add emphasis or inflection to what they are saying. Yes, there are some grouches and curmudgeons out here but there's about a 90% good hearted response to your original post but it's hard to tell when you can't hear it in verbal conversation.

    You had a life experience, you will have thousands more hopefully. Take the pearls from here so you can pass them on some day.

    Thanks for sticking with the thread through the well intended "lesson".

  4. #94
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=9MMare;1963363]I'm sorry....were you blocked in in front? Side? Possibly behind I guess, but why couldn't you drive away? Umm, the windows do roll up, don't they? And the car ignition still works? Srsly, you cant put up windows and start a car in 15 seconds? The minute you start your engine and start to move, it will alter your attacker's attitude. Are you afraid the guy you want to turn into pulp wont get out of the way?

    You got pissed off and wanted a piece. Let's not start changing the story here.

    he also comments that parking lot fights are his thing; but than he took out a knife....

    so he is now gonna call the game cause he doesn't like the score and as you
    can lead a horse to water ( sorry about that, chief) learning from experience is a skill yet untested by some.

    it is the same as why no-child-left-behind failed...for them that 2+2=5 there is no amount of discussion gonna change their mind.

    but i see another here who thinks that calling 911 is weak, so there is a like minded thinker type friend for him.
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  5. #95
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    I was in my vehicle stopped at a light in traffic some years ago. A homeless guy decided he didn't Like any of the cars there. He decided he wanted to smash all of the windows. When he came to my car, having seen what he did to the vehicles around me, I drew down on him. That made him stop and back away. When the light turned green, I left the scene and then called the local PD number reporting what happened and my actions.

    There was no need for me to exit the safety of the vehicle. No need to draw the BG away from the vehicle....no need to be "mucho macho". The sooner the chip comes off the shoulder, the sooner you will see it from a mature perspective.
    claude clay, limatunes and TSiWRX like this.
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  6. #96
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Alive but in prison means you failed. You see, it's not just the actual gunfight you need to win. You also need to win the legal fight after the smoke clears.



    And yet, you keep giving advise about how to handle an incident under Florida law....



    There is a difference between retreat and leaving the safety of your vehicle to go engage in an impromptu boxing match in a parking lot. This is why I asked if you understood the meaning of "mutual combatant".

    Let me re-phrase my question, by posing it differently. If you were in your home, and a guy was outside screaming at you, would you go outside to fight him, or remain indoors prepared to defend yourself if he broke in? In which case would the castle doctrine protect you?

    Matt
    Yes, in this case I would most definitely stay in my house. But in my house I would be standing up, in a position I could defend myself if he managed to break in. Just think about that situation at the gas station the other day. I don't want to be in that position where somebody is attacking me while I'm in the car. When somebody has already stated their intention to inflict harm on me, I have no way to know what they might have in their pockets that could break glass. You can break glass with a knife, especially if the handle is metal. And what's worse, once they have broken the glass and are hitting and grabbing or stabbing me, I wouldn't even be able to open the door at that point. I'm sorry but I just don't see the comparison (from a defensive prospective, not a legal one) of the house and the car.

    This is what I've been taught in my self defense classes, and it makes sense. I'm sorry if it is different from what you would do. See, when I see a man who is threatening me without an obvious weapon, I'm going to defend myself with martial arts. And I can do a pretty good job of it. So, assuming this guy didn't have a weapon, I would be able to stop this attack without introducing lethal force. As soon as a weapon is produced by the bad guy, the situation goes up a notch. But when I'm stuck in the car, I don't have nearly as many options.

  7. #97
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    I can draw my gun just as quickly from inside my car as standing outside it.

    Nobody's hand is going straight thru the window to your throat with or without knife butt, hammer, etc.

    You want to defend yourself with martial arts, great. Same thing as we told the kid tho....if you lose, he gets your gun and your girl. How do you know he's not also a ninja fighter?


    BTW, a martial artist should also be able to disarm whatever comes thru that window....sitting in traffic, I have imagined many scenarios of being attacked in my car. Even I have a few plans for that.
    TSiWRX likes this.
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  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Let's not start changing the story here.
    Agreed.

    As I said, when I read your original post I wasn't too bent out of shape about it. As stated, you accepted what you did wrong. And you're right, we weren't there. We don't know the whole setup.

    But then you flat out said, "he was asking for a fight and I was going to give it to him."

    That sounds to me like you weren't looking for a way out of the situation. You weren't thinking in deescalation terms. You (to quote you) were going "to give it to him." You can't take those words back (or the action that it implies). This implies that you stopped looking for a means of escape or deescalation. You were going to get into a fight and all of the other stuff you've posted seems just to try to validate why you HAD to get into a fight instead of how you could have avoided that fight.

    It could be exactly as you describe. You had no escape and you had to get out. But there could have been options you simply did not even consider because you didn't care to consider them. As you put it, "he was asking for a fight and I was going to give it to him." You more-than-likely didn't care to even try to start the car and roll up the windows or drive around. You didn't even want to try. He was asking for a fight and you were going to give it to him. That says all we (and attorneys) need to know about your mindset.

    If you think I'm overusing your statement you have no idea how bad it would be in court once a prosecuting attorney got a hold of that mindset and/or statement.

    I'm honestly not saying that to be mean or demeaning or rude or anything of the sorts. I'm saying it because it's true.

    Now, had you said, "I was trapped and I didn't know what else to do but get out of the car and apologize or deescalate the situation," I wouldn't be typing up this post. Your mindset has put you into a box that you aren't going to have an easy time escaping here or in a court room if that mindset ever does land you in court.

    How would you explain that one phrase to a jury? How would you explain you were simply defending yourself when you, yourself, said you were going to give him the fight he was asking for?

    You can try to backpeddle all you want and think of ways to justify why you HAD to get out of the car and that MIGHT save you but it might not. We'll THANKFULLY!!! never know (in regards to this scenario).

    You can't unring that bell.

    But what you CAN do is start to think about confrontations differently. You CAN start embracing deescalation. You CAN start looking for way to get out of confrontations rather than into them. You CAN start thinking in avoidance terms. You have a chance to learn a VALUABLE lesson here and it would be a shame if you didn't take that lesson seriously.

  9. #99
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    Only major mistake I see, was not calling 911 & reporting it!

    We weren't there & every situation is different, just saying there are a lot of different ways this could play out........just keep your available options open & don't think that your best recourse is to stay in the vehicle.....in most cases it might be, but there can be others where it's a bad idea. Your vehicle isn't bullet proof!

    I read the replies about NOT getting out of the car.......& I don't totally agree with staying in the car. At the point he exited the car, you don't know if he's armed or not. Had he been armed with a gun, you could very well be a sitting duck, behind the wheel with no where to go. You're also in an awkward position to draw & shoot! Rolling up the windows may have just made him madder.....remember he got ticked off for a short delay at a fast food window.

    I put myself in that scenario & if the vehicle is in the drive thru lane, you may not have room to maneuver. There could be cars blocking your path behind (next customer)& ahead (BGs). I would much rather be able to move & use other cover, than to be trapped behind the wheel. Also, since I am the BGs target, it would take his attention away from the vehicle & my wife, who would be readying her firearm to respond if necessary. Then if it turned deadly, there'd be two people in a position to defend.

    Once he pulled the knife, he'd be going to jail! He would not have driven away......
    Tzadik likes this.
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  10. #100
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    Well....I do appreciate y'alls input, and I'll remember it, and exercise it in the future.

  11. #101
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    My thoughts exactly.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    You can break glass with a knife, especially if the handle is metal. And what's worse, once they have broken the glass and are hitting and grabbing or stabbing me, I wouldn't even be able to open the door at that point. I'm sorry but I just don't see the comparison (from a defensive prospective, not a legal one) of the house and the car.
    If you sit there and give him all the time he needs to break the glass, then sure. Or, you can move the vehicle. If not, that is when the gun gets drawn and justifiably so.

    It's not like you're going to sit there and let him just go at your window, if you can at all avoid it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florida View Post
    Well....I do appreciate y'alls input, and I'll remember it, and exercise it in the future.
    Great to hear that.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Reality check. You are 21. Time to man up and seriously take a long hard look at your attitude towards people, life, and conflict. You chose to take responsibility for the safety of you and yours by obtaining your CC and carrying a gun. Good for you.

    This is not a testosterone booster shot. This is a slow down, think, pride snuffing inoculation. Absolutely, and as noted previously and repeatedly, drive away. If you seriously think that conflict avoidance is "un-manly" then you need to STOP carrying your gun, and lock your permit away until you can grasp the gravity of the responsibilities involved in carrying and potentially using your weapon.

    Your CC is the last tool you ever deploy in the most dire of circumstances. NOT an ace in the hole during a challenge. You may have the legal right to stand your ground, but I guarantee you, in a situation like this, as you described it, you and your lawyer will have a very hard time justifying that in court.

    I do hope you stick around here and do some reading on other threads and topics. There is much to learn here.





    ^^^^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I have in bold Itt. & underlined, what you need to think about.


    You need an attitude adjustment.
    At 21 I was full of pee and vinegar as well, but would NOT have dreamed of "just having a good ole' scuffle in the parking lot" like a good ole' boy.
    Thats for idiots, people with no self control, future convicts and folks who just don't care if they live very long.

    There will always be someone bigger/badder and just have the hate for the whole human race, all raging inside of them.
    Do you want to "fight" with him?



    Just my .03 cents
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florida View Post
    but come on when you were 21 and someone challanged you a fight did you just roll up your windows
    Sure did. Concealed carry is a grown-up responsibility. No offense, but maybe you aren't quite ready to carry a deadly weapon yet. Just as background, I am 24. 21 wasn't too long ago for me, although sure, I did learn a lot in those three years about being an adult.

    One thing to respond to an invitation for a fist fight when you're 16... but 21? Come on, dude.

  15. #105
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Have we had a good 'defending your car' thread lately? They sometimes arise out of road rage scenarios or incident threads. Might be a good time for one. I'm always open for new ideas there, esp since I commute so dang far by car at the moment.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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