Great conversations. It's why I keep coming to this forum. I learn something everyday
This is a discussion on Rethinking My Decision To Carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In my opinon there are are far more people in forums worried about what will happen after a shoot than people that get hammered for ...
In my opinon there are are far more people in forums worried about what will happen after a shoot than people that get hammered for a legit shoot. I'm not saying don't do things the right way, just do whatever you think is best for YOU and don's let people that have never been in a shoot convince you that you will get hammered no matter what you do.
If I get cranky It's because the VA is changing my meds again.
NRA and DAV life member.
Great conversations. It's why I keep coming to this forum. I learn something everyday
For $35 this one video will be an awakening for you and probably do more to help assist you in your quest to decide if carrying a gun is for you.
Judicious Use of Deadly Force is a two hour video from world renowned author and instructor Massad Ayoob.
Ayoob is arguably one of the very finest authorities on civilian use of lethal force. He is a , lethal force trainer and accomplished author on the topic of deadly force, and is a former police captain. His accomplishments as an expert witness at trial has earned him a reputation of one that his testimony is the one you need on your side.
The video I linked for you is a two hour lecture that comes straight out of his 40 hour LFI-I course, and now presently his MAG-40 course, and it goes beyond his critically acclaimed book In The Gravest Extreme, which is by many, considered to be the one book which belongs in everyone's library on self defense.
I highly recommend that as a starting point for both you and your wife, you invest in the video Judicious Use of Deadly Force. I can practically guarantee, you will not be disappointed. In fact, if you purchase the DVD version and do not like it, I will purchase it from you. My copy is in VHS because DVD's wasn't even a format when I bought my copy.
Give that a shot, and I'm confident you will learn more about how to apply lethal force and under what circumstances it is warranted.
It's all about having the proper knowledge, my friend, and this video will not only put you at ease, but provide enough knowledge to want to learn more.
Good luck. As we all grow older in this dangerous world, I feel confidant in knowing the fact that I carry a gun will help level the playing field should I ever find myself facing the gravest extreme. There are no guarantee's... But I feel confident my training and knowledge base will help tilt the odds in my favor.
You can purchase many of Ayoob's books here at Amazon, or through video link I provided at the top.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
I suppose at least a few illustrative "war stories" are appropriate here - and living in south Florida, there's no shortage of them, and they're REAL. Some are recorded on video and have appeared on the local evening news. Some are what our men and women in blue have pieced together from reliable sources.
First story: Shown in store-recorded video on the evening news. These two guys walk into a convenience store at night, hold the clerk at gunpoint demanding his cash, and then gratuitously shoot him to death. They check the rear of the store and find another employee, and they bring him to the front of the store, force him to kneel, and then shoot him to death. They flee and are not apprehended.
Second story: Shown in store-recorded video on the evening news: This guy walks into a convenience store brandishing a gun and demands that the clerk give him the cash in the till. To make his point, the perpetrator fires his gun on one side of the clerk and then the other. At that point, the clerk reaches under the counter, pulls out a handgun, and shoots the perp, at a distance of about two feet, in the abdomen. The perp was obviously not expecting such rude treatment. He ran to one end of the store doubled up, then he ran doubled up in the other direction out the door. His body was found by law enforcement in the parking lot. They hear the story, see the video, and send the clerk home, as this is a clear case of self-defense.
Third story: Sorry, no video here. This guy goes to a convenience store at night and makes a purchase. As he leaves the store, he's approached by a small group of males with guns. They tell him the want his money. He gets into his car and drives away. They also have a car and pursue him - and eventually corner him. He has nowhere to run, and he is unarmed. They shoot him to death. The perps are not apprehended.
Fourth story: This will be the last - although it needn't be, because there are others. No video here either. A man driving a car is boxed in by another car. One of the persons in the car shoots at him. He has a gun. He shoots back, wounding one. The other one drives the car with the wounded perpetrator to a hospital, where the wounded perp dies and his accomplice is arrested. The person who [most fortunately] had a gun is not a victim. He survives without injury, and is not charged with any offense by law enforcement.
Recently, we've had a rash of bump and rob cases. It appears that some are copycat perpetrators. It works like this: At night, the victim car is deliberately rear ended by the perpetrator car. The victim gets out of the car to view the damage. The perps shoot the victim to death and - sometimes, but not in every case - take the cash of the victim.
Now, ladies and gentlemen, speaking for myself, I will not serve my life up to some piece of excrement so that I will not mistakenly shoot him and risk court time. With all of its flaws, and with all of its variations from state to state - and even from court to court within the same state - the justice system is what we have. Most fortunately for those of us who choose readiness to defend ourselves and our families, there is NRA and other organizations who know many experts and many defense attornies of innocent victims who have defended themselves with a firearm.
Many years ago - I think about forty years ago - a convicted cold blooded murderer escaped from his place of incarceration - THREE TIMES!!! He held me responsible in fair measure for his conviction and incarceration, and each time he escaped, my boys in blue would call me and let me know. I then took to carrying a Beretta .380 which I happened to have as a keepsake from a family member who'd served in WWII. I still have it and no intention of parting with it, although my defense weapon of choice now is something else. There was no way that I was ready to trade my life for his. When he was apprehended, I was called, and returned the Beretta to a safe place.
Now I live in a world and environment in which people's homes and businesses are brazenly and forcibly entered by thugs at night, sometimes in the early morning, while the occupants are inside -where a night time trip to a convenience store can result in senseless death of an innocent person - where merely driving a car after dark can result in death by murder. Now I don't wait for any warning from law enforcement personnel. I CARRY - and I am a better person for accepting the responsibility for protecting me and mine. The community is a better AND SAFER place for all the good men and women who do the same.
Can mistakes be made? Of course, anything is possible. There are no guarantees, you can be negligent and kill someone with your car. But a good citizen of reasonable judgment and concern, who is armed and trained, is a good person whom the community of like minded people will rally behind.
Good luck with whatever decision you make. You already have shown that you are responsible and thoughtful citizen.
statistics ( gotta love numbers--figures lie and lier's figure) are that you may carry all your adult life and if, IF you have situational awareness than you will have avoided numerous potential events on a yearly basis: i did not park there cause the light was out and i was the last car in line and..... or the wife and i decided against that mall entrance cause the kids at the bus stop were rowdy and... so once or twice a year nothing happens other than you clean the gun when you change the clocks and fire a box when you get invited ti a friends range.
OK, a couple of times in the past 10 years some one or two youth made me uncomfortable but ii had my gun and they did not smell fear on me--they went away.
perhaps, after all it does happen, perhaps you are one of the 1 in 10,000 who over 40 + years actually had someone say 'gimme or...' and he was more than 10 feet away and you reached in your pocket and took out that little j-frame...and it surprised the hell out of you that the kid could run away so fast. all the time you carried the gun and you woundered...and you feel good about it now i bet.
could be you are the 1 in 100,000 and he though you weak and moved in despite the gun; his bad. but on your hands is not his blood; that belongs to him--he made the choice to move on you: he paid the price for his life style. today, you perhaps do not feel so good. soon though you will. your sub-conscious will put things in place and show you that you did right. so will the courts.
You plug 'em, I plant 'em
...kid can't read at 17 (Garcia/Hunter 1985)
Lack of preparation on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on mine
Unless you're comfortable carrying, and absolutely positive that you would shoot to save you're life or the life of a loved one, don't carry a gun. If it's the judicial part that concerns you most, move to Arizona.
Prophecy Update Archives
Having just read a 120+ post thread that was closed in less than 24 hours since it started, I passed on reading past post 20 here.
To the OP...
If you are a level headed individual, a law abiding citizen, and generally smart enough to avoid potential bad situations...In the hopefully unlikely event that you will have to use your firearm, "Cut and Dried" will not be a problem for you. Know your local and state laws on the matter. Understand when the tipping point is reached for use of deadly force (disparity of force, jeopardy, means, opportunity, imminent danger of severe injury or death, etc...), and you will be just fine in the eyes of the law.
Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
See also Sheep
Carrying a weapon is a personal decision which is one that only you can make.
When I came home from Vietnam, I was not comfortable without a weapon. I obtained my CCW and have had a gun ever since.When I went outside, my gun came with me. When I was home, it was locked in the safe. Over the years I became a collector and had a sizable collection, again when I was home, all guns were in the safe. And I became complacent over time, sometimes not bothering to take a gun out of the safe and went out unarmed.
One day, while in my high rise Condo, three armed intruders entered my apartment. When I heard the door open I thought it may have been a maintenance guy so I left my home office and walked down the hallway towards the front door. I surprised them as much as they surprised me. They opened fire at me. I tore off down the hallway, back into the office and fell on the floor playing dead. I had been hit three times. They quickly cleaned out my condo of high end electronics and some very expensive, uninsured art work. When I was sure they were gone, I crawled to the telephone which had been knocked to the floor and dialed 9-1-1. I was very lucky that I survived without serious injury to major organs or bones. I never would have believed that a human could lose that much blood and still live.
The result of all this is that I now never ever leave the house without a gun. I always have a gun with me inside my home except when I am in the shower. At other times, my gun is right next to me and there are guns hidden in every room of my house. Had I had a gun that day, I probably would not have come that close to dying and I would not have suffered a huge financial loss as I took that day. In my discussions with the detectives over the course of several weeks, everyone of them told me that it would have made them feel so much better if I had had my gun to protect myself and I was very lucky to have lived thru the ordeal. If I had a gun, a few shots may have been exchanged but the bad guys would most likely would have fled and there is certainly no DA that would level charges against a citizen protecting himself in his own home.
NRA Certified Instructor
Gold Seal CFI
1st Air Cav Vietnam Veteran
If I HAD to carry openly any more, I would probably NOT. However, carrying concealed is sort of like being on leave and wearing civvies: YOU know who you are, but others don't. I'm getting older and can't do what I did before and older guys are often targets for the scum. I feel MUCH better now knowing that I can still defend myself and my family from the evil that is all around us. Good luck with your decision and thanks for all of your service! Denny
I may be the only person to post this sentiment, but after taking the required course for my license to carry, I was far more motivated to carry simply be virtue of hearing the mentality of many of my classmates. Knowing that a number of characters like I sat and heard talk about the situations they would draw in, I fully came to realize that there are untold numbers of folks with mental processes totally out of kilter with the law and reality. And many of them have guns, and are walking around me every day. If the bonafide bad guys don't pick you, it may still come to pass that you'll be stuck on the wrong side of something with another legal cc'er who has a tenuous grasp on reality to start with.
I thought long and hard before getting my license, and if it surely does weigh on my mind, as it should. Your reasoning is very admirable and ideally, everyone who carries would be as well thought out as you are, OP.
This kind of thread is exactly why I enjoy DC so much. There is truly a wealth of knowledge here. LEO's current and former, Federal agents, Military both active and retired, Doctors, Lawyers, and yes probably even Indian Chiefs, as well as some old farts like myself that have been around guns fifty years or more. To the OP, only you can make the decision you are facing, I think most of us here have given long and serious thought to the things you brought up in your post. I hope so anyway. You have been given some great advise by the members here. In the end, gleen all you can from as many as you can. Do your best to make as informed a decision as possible. I guess the best way to sum it up is how the lawyers put it, "what would a wise and prudent man do".
and oh yea...Welcome to the forum and Thank you Sir for your service to our Country!
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
I've read every post to this thread which I'm responsible for starting. What a great group of people. Thank you. I'm sure in the end I will make the decision which best suits our situation. The collective knowledge of the people here is incredible.
I'll just give you a simple one ;
The older you get, the more sympathy you are likely to get from any jury for the need of protection and not being seen as a cowboy or aggressor, and DA's know that and and are less likely to charge an older person.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
I see it as the balance between stress and comfort. There is a certain amount of stress in having the huge responsibility of lethal force. Does it outweigh the comfort you have in carrying? Does the stress of facing the threats of daily life without carrying outweigh the stress of carrying? Evaluate why you carry and determine if one outweighs the other. Introspect is as rare a quality as good judgement...and you appear to have both. I think you would be fine.
The people that concern me are the ones who don't know what they don't know. The ones who post threads on here like, "I almost drew on a guy for..." and it was something that was so ridiculous it is scary. And 9 pages of member posts trying to explain to them why it wasn't justifiable and they still don't get it. You don't appear to be one of those people.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.