May have to reconsider chambering a round.

[Mattmann]

I keep one In the pipe all the time with my m&p .45. As far as my kel Tec pocket carry, I am still trying to get use to no safety. I sure it will come with time. As far as the sig goes, I am sure this is to cover thereself juuusstt in case. There is a reason the seals amd such use these guns.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[MattInFla]

As most know, I've been involved in many arguments on here about chambered vs. unchambered. There have been many valid points brought up in the past which suggest chambering may be the right way to go. But so far have not been sufficient to change my mind. However, something happened today which nobody has ever mentioned and I had never thought of before. My wife and I went to the range today and I decided to shoot my little Taurus TCP 738. I actually rarely shoot that gun, because it is not fun to shoot. But with the hot weather lately, I've been carrying it more and more because it is much easier to conceal when wearing shorts and a t-shirt. So I figured if I carry this thing, I should put some rounds through it. Well, as many know it has been quite hot around here lately. It was 102 degrees outside today. When I first got into the range, I was still sweating from being outside. I was unable to chamber a round in that TCP because the slide is so small, has such a strong spring, and my hands were sweaty. My hand would literally just slide right off the slide like it was coated in vaseline or something. My wife tried and also was unable to do it. After I rubbed my hands on my shorts to dry them off a bit, I was finally able to do it. I could just see myself trying to chamber a round with sweaty hands while the BG is trying to kill me.

This would not have been a problem on my usual carry gun, the Glock 19. The slide is much larger and has a better grip. In fact, I can chamber a round in the Glock using the bottom of my shoe, and other methods I've practiced. But there was little I could do on this TCP. So I may just have to start carrying that one chambered, especially during the Summer which is the time I'm most likely to carry that gun anyway.

Now you're seeing why so many of us told you that carrying without a round chambered is a bad idea.

Now, as to the Glock, what happens if the initial attack takes out one of your hands / arms? Or you are desperately fending off your assailant with one hand while drawing the gun with the other. Are you really going to be able to hop on one foot while using the other to chamber a round while simultaneously fighting for your life with the other hand? I'd suggest not. And I'd further suggest you'd end up very dead in that scenario.

Ironically, my wife pointed out to me something in the manual to her new SIG P238. There is a section which explicitly tells the user that they should not keep a round chambered unless firing the gun and also warns that if the gun is dropped it may fire accidentally. ?!?!?

Welcome to the land of the lawyers. You'll probably find a similar "warning" in the manual of just about every firearm.

Matt

[deadguy]

Im not posting this to hurt anyones feelings or get put on their ignore list but simply to point out a scenario that could play out (which is what most do on threads like this anyway). Closing the mind to what COULD happen is the first mistake a responsible CCer can do.

What happens if you are cut or shot on your strong side arm, hand or shoulder before you can chamber a round on your shoe or belt or whatever else? A cut or bullet to a forearm muscle will suck the strength right out of your grip and an injury to a tricep will take any pushing strength out of your arm as well. Tack on an injury or wound to your weakside arm. Murphys law here. The only strength you could have left is the strength to hold and fire your weapon. If that strength is gone you are probably dead anyway, but if that I all you have left it could be enough to save your life or end the life that took yours. Even a non-skilled BG can snap of two or three shots at you before you can draw and attempt to chamber a round. If those two or three shots hit the marks mentioned above, you better know how to rack the slide with your teeth (assuming they weren't shot out as well).

[TheGiant]

I too used to carried empty. It is safe, no chance of AD.
I always thought my SA was high enough that I could chamber a round before it was necessary. No I do not practice enough to think I could draw then chamber a round before a bad guy could attack me. I would just chamber a round anytime my spidy since went off. Anyway after my daughter was born being the strong man I get to carry her a lot weak side and there is no way I can have her in my arms and still chamber a round. Then seeing more videos like this 7-11 Robbery on Video and you know that what ever advantage you have by carrying a weapon is lost if it is empty. so I will carry chambered from now on. I purchased a XD just for the fact that it had more safety features than a Glock and will now use those to safely carry chambered.

[paul45]

Why carry an"empty" gun? You should carry a rock - smoooth, rounded, no permit, ready to go and good grip. Plus it might hurt less than an empty gun being pushed up you backside by the bad guy.
The safety is YOU! Learn the gun and practice, practice, practice. Your last practice taught you an important leason. All practice will teach you something. All you have to do is learn from others who have been there, done that.

[Old School]

So what gun am I carrying today and is it the one that I carry with a round in the chamber or do I have to chamber a round before I can use it to save my life ?

For me whatever one of my guns I am carrying I know that if I need to use it all I have to do is to pull the trigger.

I will use a quote from the wise sage Guantes to end my thoughts on this matter, "You do what you do and I do what I do".

[adric22]

Why carry an"empty" gun? You should carry a rock - smoooth, rounded, no permit, ready to go and good grip. Plus it might hurt less than an empty gun being pushed up you backside by the bad guy.
The safety is YOU! Learn the gun and practice, practice, practice. Your last practice taught you an important leason. All practice will teach you something. All you have to do is learn from others who have been there, done that.

I hear this analogy a lot. But if you truly believe that, lets you and I have a little duel. You can bring the rock to the duel and I'll bring my unchambered Glock. Lets see who wins.

[TVJ]

In regards to the story with my daughter, you have your facts wrong. In that situation, she was told to grab an airsoft gun out of the gun safe which was 15 feet away from where we were shooting other airsoft guns in the backyard. That safe is (normally) always locked, filled with unloaded guns, all of which have barrel locks in them except for my carry-gun (glock 19) which is kept loaded. For some bizarre reason she mistook that one for the airsoft gun she was supposed to be getting.......

That is utterly inexcusable.

Take personal responsibility.

All the rest of your safety measures are fine.

You blew it with one.

All it takes is one.

"For some bizarre reason, my daughter/wife/adric/(insert family member/friend here) is now dead."

Keep airsoft in separate safe/lockbox away from your real guns at all times

We do.

[TSiWRX]

^ As both a firearms as well as airsoft enthusiast - one who also uses airsoft as training aids - I am hard-pressed to not agree with the above.

There's absolutely no excuse, and is pure negligence, for any airsoft to be confused with a real-steel counterpart, during any aspect of training.

This mix-up has deadly consequences.

If you cannot control for the potential mix-up of the two, then you need to take the absolute highest level of security with BOTH.

[Yankeejib]

I'm new to this site, but I'm not new to CC or weapons. Some of these viewpoints are utterly fantastic. An unloaded gun is nothing more than an expensive hammer. You'd be better off just carrying a sharp stick with you. "Yes officer, when the BG came up to me and stuck a knife in my face and demanded my wallet, I pulled out my $1000 Sig Sauer and began beating him with it while he sliced up my face and chest". Seriously, if you're going to CC empty, what's the point? If your answer is "safety", then you know nothing, and probably aren't qualified to be anywhere near any weapons. You carry a gun in order to be ready to protect yourself in the unfortunate circumstance that your safety or life is threatened. It happens quick, and there is not time to rack one home. You'll probably lose your wallet and your empty gun if the BG is any good.

[SIXTO]

I hear this analogy a lot. But if you truly believe that, lets you and I have a little duel. You can bring the rock to the duel and I'll bring my unchambered Glock. Lets see who wins.

But that would not illustrate the point being made; if you want an imaginary duel, arm your opponent with a chambered pistol, or even a knife.

[Snatale42]

It's not drop safe? Does it have a firing pin block? Even my Kel-Tec is drop safe. I've proved this.... not on purpose

Most firearms manual's will tell you, keep firearm unloaded until ready to shoot. It's so they don't get sued when somebody ND's. Most pistols are designed to be carried +1. Glock's are designed to carry +1 and even the their manual says the same thing. It's all about the legal issues.

EXACTLY!!!!!! Couldn't say it better myself. Any gun thats NOT drop safe should not be one in the collection. The reality is, preference aside, carrying a unloaded gun is a stupid practice that may very well get you killed one day. People get pissed when it's said but if your uncomfortable carrying loaded then further training IS needed. It's not an insult to your ability but I think you proved OUR point when you couldn't rack the slide. Doesn't matter what gun it was. Stuff happens and when seconds count you WON'T have them to spare!

[JD]

"You bring your rocks and I'll bring my sword and see who wins"

[Goliath]

So there are unknown conditions that can hamper chambering a round...who would have thought...I am shocked to say the least. I'm surprised I've never read that before.


I'm glad you're going out and learning on your own but if it ever comes down to having to use your gun, the learning curve is going to be deadly steep.





Sent via Tapatalk...and still using real words.

[ppkheat]

Check out this thread:
LA: Pier Part Shooting - 2 Dead

Carefully read post #20, according to the thread it appears the GG in this shooting was carrying his CCW with an empty chamber, if I'm correct, he's not advocating that position anymore.

[muddy]

Dude I don't know what to tell you. You have a lot of accuses for not carrying a loaded weapon and even bring up what every gun manual says about not leaving the gun loaded or it may fire if dropped which is there way to get out of any legal action you may take because they told you so. You have had a wake up call in a safe and controlled environment but still don't seam to get that carrying an unloaded weapon isn't going to cut it. I hope you figure it out before something happens to you or yours and we see another post on here about how you wish would have listened to the masses and carried loaded. Sounds like you have a serious trust issues to me. Just cant trust your fingers not to pull them triggers.