May have to reconsider chambering a round. - Page 3

May have to reconsider chambering a round.

This is a discussion on May have to reconsider chambering a round. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; To the O.P. How many posts is it going to take? I really can not rationalize your desire to have your ass handed to you ...

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Thread: May have to reconsider chambering a round.

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    To the O.P. How many posts is it going to take? I really can not rationalize your desire to have your ass handed to you on such a consistent basis.

    All these members can't be wrong.


  2. #32
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    It seems, Yet again, we cannot discuss the facts of an issue without pointing fingers to each others side calling out flaws.

    Instead of something like "This is indeed another reason I carry chambered" or something to the like. We must use this as a chance to pounce on people who have different beliefs.
    Negative, I dont see it like that.

    As an Instructor, I just seeing as correcting a wrong, same as you would do with a little kid screwing up.

    It is the responsibilty of any instructor, no matter what the subject is, to point out what is wrong and correct it. I do not reccomend carrying an empty gun, therefore it would only be natural to advise against it. It is also important to discuss faulty logic. You can just point it out, you must discuss it until the person using the faulty logic "sees the light" and realizes that they were wrong and they correct their habits.

    Having taken and filed Police reports on various assaults, you would think that they could see it coming and be ready right? One common thing in all of them is the speed in which it happened. Virtually everyone makes the comment that they were amazed at the quickness of the moment.
    I am under no illusions and I know how things can happen. I know and understand that your life can be changed in the blink of an eye.You might be smiling one second and a second later taking your last breath because of circumstances beyond your control.

    One variable that you can control is having a loaded weapon. There is no sense in being disadvantaged, in a fight for your life you want every advantage you can get so that you can win the encounter. Even having a loaded gun is no guarantee of success and can be shown by anybody laying dead on the ground with a gun in their hand or close by.

    I also understand that there are some people that take any instruction as an offense to their personal being and they get their feelings hurt because they were told of a better way to do something so they go sulk in a corner. Instead of manning up and learning from their mistakes, they take gather up their toys and go play somewhere else where they can be King.

    While its their right to do so, that dosent make it right.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  3. #33
    Member Array gruntingfrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Ironically, my wife pointed out to me something in the manual to her new SIG P238. There is a section which explicitly tells the user that they should not keep a round chambered unless firing the gun and also warns that if the gun is dropped it may fire accidentally. ?!?!?
    Yes, and your TCP user manual specifies that criminals aren't allowed to use it (see below). These things are thrown in as an attempt to prevent lawsuits not because they are functionally true. The Sig P238 has a firing pin block and is drop safe when carried in Condition 1. They most likely put in the reference to it going off if dropped to (attempt to) protect themselves in case there is a manufacturing flaw.

    DANGER: This product is not intended for use by criminals, for use in the commission of crimes or for any other wrongful purpose. Such uses constitute a misuse of the product and have a high likelihood of serious bodily injury or death for the criminal, the wrongdoer, law enforcement officers and/or innocent bystanders.
    http://www.taurususa.com/pdf/manual_TCP_50062247.pdf
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  4. #34
    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    DANGER: This product is not intended for use by criminals, for use in the commission of crimes or for any other wrongful purpose. Such uses constitute a misuse of the product and have a high likelihood of serious bodily injury or death for the criminal, the wrongdoer, law enforcement officers and/or innocent bystanders.
    - If more gun manufacturers did that, there would no longer be any gun crimes.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array DaRedneck's Avatar
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    Ultimately we are all on the same team as far as RKBA goes. I'm glad to see your still thinking about it and might recommend that you try carrying chambered at times when you are alone and get comfortable with it then progress to maybe carrying chambered around town or just going to the store. Baby steps. Maybe after a while you'll see it is the right way to carry. Either way, train and keep up the good fight for gun rights.
    "He who does not punish evil commands it to be done." - Leonardo da Vinci

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    What we see here is an individual owner making his own decisions and learning over time. That's how it should be, provided that he's not endangering himself through bad actions.

    As an analogy, I keep my swords in their scabbards. Some people might point out that they would be more useful for self defense in the home if I left them uncovered, so that they'd be immediately ready for use. And my answer to that is, "Hey! They're my swords and I'll store them in the manner that I see fit."

    That applies here. As long as the handling and use are not in violation of the rules of safety, it's really his call for better or worse.

    Remember that one guy - he kept his handgun unloaded with the magazine stored separately from the firearm? Well, that was his comfort level. Nothing you can say on the Internet will change that fellow's personal level of ease with his weapon. Only he can do that. Keep this in mind next time you want to call somebody out and tell them how they have to handle their guns.
    tcox4freedom and canav844 like this.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    All things considered, when split seconds count there are just too many variables and opportunities for something to go wrong in having to chamber a round under extreme stress.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.

  8. #38
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    OP, I'm glad to see you have had a change of heart with one of your EDC. Hopefully, you will see the change as a positive and will do the same with your G-19. I carry mine with one in the chamber and after a FOF class understand how fast things happens. Find a trainer in your area and spend some time and money with them and I think you will come around.

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Another way to gain confidence carrying chambered is to buy a hammered semi DA/SA with de-cocker (i.e my Bersa Thunder 9 ultra compact). That particular pistol you can chamber, de-cock, and carry with the safety on or off. It really helped my get comfortable with carrying at first. My next carry gun was my XD40sc and it is striker fired SA but has a grip safety much like a 1911. It was like the next step in that without the grip safety being depressed it will not fire. When I holster or handle, I do so in a manner that the grip safety is not depressed. Now I have striker fired semiautos with no manual safety and no grip safety and feel 100% confident in carrying them chambered. Something to think about is buying a handgun with features such that you are comfortable carrying chambered.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I would certainly have to disagree with this. In fact it is my exceptional regard for safety that has kept me carrying unchambered all of these years. That, plus all of the stories of accidental discharges. I'm sure all of those people probably thought it would never happen to them either…

    In regards to the story with my daughter, you have your facts wrong. In that situation, she was told to grab an airsoft gun out of the gun safe which was 15 feet away from where we were shooting other airsoft guns in the backyard. That safe is (normally) always locked, filled with unloaded guns, all of which have barrel locks in them except for my carry-gun (glock 19) which is kept loaded. For some bizarre reason she mistook that one for the airsoft gun she was supposed to be getting. The same airsoft gun she has gotten any number of times while I was standing there at the safe with her supervising her. In retrospect, she probably grabbed that one because all of the other guns have the barrel locks so she probably thought that because it didn't have the barrel lock, it must have been an airsoft gun.
    With all due respect sir, IMO the only "bizarre" in that story is that you told your 8-years-old daughter to go and get a gun from a safe filled with guns. You just assumed that all the guns in the safe where unloaded and had barrel locks in then except for your carry-gun (the Glock), and that she was going to see the difference between them; and after your daughter grabbed the Glock by mistake you were happy because it was not chambered. You told her to do it although according to yourself "she is still making some safety mistakes such as not putting the airsoft gun back on safety, and accidentally pointing it at people" (BB Air Pistols, post #13) and she is not able to see the difference between an airsoft and a real firearm (which can be extremely hard sometimes).

    That you were shooting other airsoft 15 feet away from the safe does not make anything better; much can happen before you have time to reach the safe from that distance. If you had not told her to go and grab the airsoft she should never had grabbed the Glock. IMO you have to review your "exceptional regard for safety". I think you might have misunderstood what "firearm safety" really means and how to accomplish these very important safety goals. You violated the first rule of gun safety, "RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED".

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post

    And yes - I was very happy that day that the Glock was not chambered. So no, I did not tell her to go pick up a loaded weapon, as your post suggests.
    If the Glock had been chambered, and your daughter had fired it when you told her to go and grab the airsoft from the safe filled with guns, it had not been an accidental discharge, it had been a negligent discharge; her finger, but your negligence. The majority of the discharges that people like to call "accidental discharges" are just negligent discharges.


    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post

    For anyone who is unable to understand why I have always carried unchambered.. Here's the reason. I've counted up all of the stories I've heard about accidental discaharges on one hand, and then all of the stories of people who were killed because they were unable to chamber a round in time to protect themselves. Well, the first hand doesn't have enough fingers and the second hand has no fingers raised. So that is pretty much the reason…

    Instead of believing everything you hear learn how your firearm works and how to handle it in a proper way. You shall know your firearm well enough to respect it and not to fear it. Once again, the majority of the discharges that people call "accidental discharges" are just negligent discharges.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  11. #41
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    about the thumbs up and you being man enough to admit to an error in your thinking----

    I TAKE IT BACK you still go on about how every one who disagrees with you is PICKING ON YOU and being UNFAIR.

    you have not changed your thoughless ways nor have you owned up to mistakes you have made that near got your own child killed.

    you have yet to show a level of maturity that warrants you having or handling dangerous weapons...period

    kindly put me back on your Do Not Disturb list.

    and read my sig twice--once for you and once for anyone you may think you are capable of training.
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  12. #42
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I would certainly have to disagree with this. In fact it is my exceptional regard for safety that has kept me carrying unchambered all of these years. That, plus all of the stories of accidental discharges. I'm sure all of those people probably thought it would never happen to them either.

    In regards to the story with my daughter, you have your facts wrong. In that situation, she was told to grab an airsoft gun out of the gun safe which was 15 feet away from where we were shooting other airsoft guns in the backyard.
    I understand the facts as you have told them, twice, and I don't think we are on the same wavelength, here. You told her to get an airsoft gun and it had the same effect as telling her to go grab your loaded Glock. If you had treated your weapons as they should be treated (dangerous, deadly, and ALWAYS LOADED), then I have to assume you would not have told her to go play in the gun safe. The situation is no different than telling your daughter to go drink a glass of iced tea when there is a pitcher of gasoline in the refrigerator. "I didn't tell her to drink gasoline" is no excuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    That safe is (normally) always locked, filled with unloaded guns, all of which have barrel locks in them except for my carry-gun (glock 19) which is kept loaded. For some bizarre reason she mistook that one for the airsoft gun she was supposed to be getting. The same airsoft gun she has gotten any number of times while I was standing there at the safe with her supervising her. In retrospect, she probably grabbed that one because all of the other guns have the barrel locks so she probably thought that because it didn't have the barrel lock, it must have been an airsoft gun. And yes - I was very happy that day that the Glock was not chambered. So no, I did not tell her to go pick up a loaded weapon, as your post suggests.
    Some bizarre reason? It's your fault, not some strange paranormal coincidence. I get the impression that you're in denial. You are the only one to blame and you deny responsibility by saying "I did not tell her to go pick up a loaded weapon." You shift the blame to her, by saying "she mistook that one for the airsoft gun..." You deny the seriousness of the incident by saying that you "were very happy that day that the Glock was not chambered." Buddy, EVERY GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED. You told her to go play with it while she was unsupervised. You claim to have an exceptional regard for safety. She's your daughter. Criminy.

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    For anyone who is unable to understand why I have always carried unchambered.. Here's the reason. I've counted up all of the stories I've heard about accidental discaharges on one hand, and then all of the stories of people who were killed because they were unable to chamber a round in time to protect themselves. Well, the first hand doesn't have enough fingers and the second hand has no fingers raised. So that is pretty much the reason.
    Your logic is flawed. First of all they are not 'accidental discharges', they are 'negligent discharges' -- there is an important difference and I suspect that you've had a N/D and that is your real reason for carrying unchambered. Secondly, how could you expect to hear of stories about people who were killed because they were unable to chamber a round in time to protect themselves? Not only for the fact that the vast majority of people carry with a loaded chamber, but exactly who do you think would be around to tell the story in the event of their death? The murderer?
    9MMare likes this.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Negative, I dont see it like that.

    As an Instructor, I just seeing as correcting a wrong, same as you would do with a little kid screwing up.

    It is the responsibilty of any instructor, no matter what the subject is, to point out what is wrong and correct it. I do not reccomend carrying an empty gun, therefore it would only be natural to advise against it. It is also important to discuss faulty logic. You can just point it out, you must discuss it until the person using the faulty logic "sees the light" and realizes that they were wrong and they correct their habits.

    ...
    I wish all people I know were in that way; and that not only when talking about firearms.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  14. #44
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    I think I've posted this video before, but it was long ago. Here's another fine example of the "tactical superiority" of an empty chamber:

    LiveLeak.com - Jewelery Store Shooting in Agra

    I was going to make a detailed post to support carrying with a loaded chamber, but then I figured, "why bother?" Thinking people who understand the nature of self defense usage of a handgun already agree with me, others who are seeking information have already seen all of the arguments and can make up their minds, and people born without the common sense gene aren't going to inherit it from the internet. As it is often said, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

    Anyway, no skin off of my nose if someone wants to ignore the advice of people with actual training and experience in self defense with handguns. No skin off my nose if someone doesn't trust their own gun handling skills enough to carry a handgun in the proper condition. They'll probably never have to use it in self defense anyway, so this is mostly academic. And if they do have to use it, and find that chambering a round in the heat of a lethal force encounter is not as easy as it is on the static conditions of a shooting range, well.....stupid should hurt.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  15. #45
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    I am still waiting on the name of the instructor who would tell you to carry without a round in the chamber. Trust me dude, with enough blood on the slide of that Glock, the slide ain't coming back.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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