Interesting article on citizen carry from a LEO's perspective I had not seen posted..

Interesting article on citizen carry from a LEO's perspective I had not seen posted..

This is a discussion on Interesting article on citizen carry from a LEO's perspective I had not seen posted.. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I read this article and found it interesting. The author seems to be coming from a pro-citizen carry stand point but at points in the ...

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Thread: Interesting article on citizen carry from a LEO's perspective I had not seen posted..

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Interesting article on citizen carry from a LEO's perspective I had not seen posted..

    I read this article and found it interesting. The author seems to be coming from a pro-citizen carry stand point but at points in the article I did find the tone kind of strange. Like he was ok with us carrying but, maybe also a little not OK with it too.

    Over all though, I would really like to see this LEO's attitude spread to all LEO's. One thing he points out is that most people who have a permit are very law abiding and would generally not hesitate to come to the aid or a LEO in trouble.

    It's worth a read. Dealing with citizens legally carrying a concealed weapon
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    I am not a L.E.O and always enjoy hearing there side of things. It is always nice to hear of L.E.O's that have a good deal of common sense.

    When I took my CCL class I asked the instructor if L.E.O's are trained/taught to deal with people that have CCL's, he said yes but all cops are different and often a seasoned cop will likely be more relaxed since he has likely been in the situation before.

    My instructor was a retired L.E.O and told us a story of when he was a rookie. He was 23 years old and on one of his first patrols he pulled over a man that was in his 80's. The old man got out of the car and started to approach the officers. The rookie instructor immediatly broke leather and ordered the old man to the ground. (this is what he was taught to do). The senior offficer with him said "man what are you doing? hes 80 years old and his probably just trying to be respectfull" As it turns out that was the case and the old man had never been pulled over and had no idea he was doing something wrong.

    He explained that the 80 year old man could of been a threat but a little common sense goes along way.

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    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    I read this article and found it interesting. The author seems to be coming from a pro-citizen carry stand point but at points in the article I did find the tone kind of strange. Like he was ok with us carrying but, maybe also a little not OK with it too.
    Definitely an interesting read. He certainly has us figured out, what we wear, how we carry, our state of readiness, etc. What I'm not sure about is why he is so worried about figuring out where we are carrying our guns. if he openly admits that we are not a problem, why does he spend so much time trying to teach other cops how to spot us?

    I noticed he mentioned that many CCW will be wearing shirts with firearm logos on them (like me and my Glock shirt) or wearing a CCW badge which resembles a police badge. I must admit I've never seen anyone wearing the badge before.. Or if I did maybe I subconsciously thought they were police and didn't think anything of it.

    I like how he pointed out that we won't be wearing pants with crotches between our knees or caps on sideways. I also like how he mentioned that thugs and felons don't use holsters. I believe that is true. Unfortunately, one friend of mine still carries without a holster, just cramming the gun in his waistband. I just wait for the day it falls out on the floor, or down into the leg of his pants someday. I get onto him about it all the time. This might be another thing I could mention to him, that a cop might think he's a felon instead of a CCW if they spot his gun due to the way he carries it.

    One thing I'm curious about, though. he says CCW are supposed to always tell an officer when coming into contact. This makes sense in cases such as a traffic stop. But I come into contact with LEO regularly in other situations. For example, when walking into my bank or church there is often an LEO on duty there. I walk right past them. Should I stop and tell them I'm carrying? Also I've even chatted with them on occasion in stores, car shows, etc. The conversations had nothing to do with guns, so I didn't mention I was carrying. Should I have?

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Note: This article was dated in 2010
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    To me it sounds like he, and his bretheren are doing us all a favor by tolerating us. Again sometimes the police need to be reminded for whom they work. The right to be armed isnt a favor, or priviledge bestowed upon us by the police (government) It is a constitutionally protected right that comes along with our citizenship.
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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Note: This article was dated in 2010
    ...which means it has been covered a few times on DC:

    Article by an LEO describing how to deal with CCers

    CCW from LEO's POV

    Interesting article from a LEO perspective...

    Interesting article on cops dealing with CCW license holders
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    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    Member Array SigHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    One thing I'm curious about, though. he says CCW are supposed to always tell an officer when coming into contact. This makes sense in cases such as a traffic stop. But I come into contact with LEO regularly in other situations. For example, when walking into my bank or church there is often an LEO on duty there. I walk right past them. Should I stop and tell them I'm carrying? Also I've even chatted with them on occasion in stores, car shows, etc. The conversations had nothing to do with guns, so I didn't mention I was carrying. Should I have?
    There is another post somewhere on this forum that talks about this. I believe the conclusion was that you are only required to inform the officer you are carrying when the contact is official, i.e. you've called 911 and the responding officer arrives, you've been in a car accident and an officer is talking to you, you were a witness to a crime and an officer is questioning you, etc. My concealed carry instructor was a local LEO, and he told us that anytime you would present your driver's license (or other ID) to an officer, you would also present your CHL. Hope this helps.
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    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    I have seen this posted on a few places over the last year.
    Mode of dress was the something I think he really got wrong (for me at least). I avoid advertising. How concealed is it if you are wearing an NRA hat, a Glock T-Shirt & have a "Got Sig?" bumper sticker? I wear clothing that helps me conceal my weapon. My Range Bag is a plain old black leather bag that was given to me by a past client with their logo on the side (an HVAC company).

    Sure, I carry a Kershaw Leek in my off-hand pocket & have a 120 lumen tactical flashlight in my car, and instead of a belt from Macy's I wear a beltman belt, but if you saw me on the street you would not be looking at Tactical Tom and his 5.11 gear. Inconspicuous appearance is a big part of the game of concealment.
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    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    I think he got it mostly right. CCW civilians should be treated as resources. The vast majority of us are extremely law-abiding, and would come to the aid of a LEO in trouble.

    Bottom line for LEO and CCW - we're on the same side. There's no need for an "us versus them" attitude. Let's help each other out and make the country a better and safer place for all.

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    Member Array rably's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigHawk View Post
    There is another post somewhere on this forum that talks about this. I believe the conclusion was that you are only required to inform the officer you are carrying when the contact is official, i.e. you've called 911 and the responding officer arrives, you've been in a car accident and an officer is talking to you, you were a witness to a crime and an officer is questioning you, etc. My concealed carry instructor was a local LEO, and he told us that anytime you would present your driver's license (or other ID) to an officer, you would also present your CHL. Hope this helps.
    That's the way it was put to me also - if I have to identify myself to LEO, then I also have to inform them that I have a CCW permit. And as always, it is better to inform them even though it was not required, than the opposite.

    The article did make me realize that I tend to straighten my shirt and put my forearm on it to verify that it's covered - I've got to be more observant about that.

    I'm not big on vests (or "shoot me first" vests, as I've heard them refered to). Inconspicuous to the average person is my goal. If someone is very observant, they may be able to tell that it is something other than a cell phone or an insulin pump, but most people have no idea. If your pants are sagging on one side, get a better belt and/or tighten yours up more, or maybe don't try to CC with a .454 Casull (or carry 2 of them to balance things out?)

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    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rably View Post
    If your pants are sagging on one side, get a better belt and/or tighten yours up more, or maybe don't try to CC with a .454 Casull (or carry 2 of them to balance things out?)
    In a Speedo...
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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    In a Speedo...
    Braggart!
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    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    I have seen this posted on a few places over the last year.
    Mode of dress was the something I think he really got wrong (for me at least). I avoid advertising. How concealed is it if you are wearing an NRA hat, a Glock T-Shirt & have a "Got Sig?" bumper sticker? I wear clothing that helps me conceal my weapon. My Range Bag is a plain old black leather bag that was given to me by a past client with their logo on the side (an HVAC company).

    Sure, I carry a Kershaw Leek in my off-hand pocket & have a 120 lumen tactical flashlight in my car, and instead of a belt from Macy's I wear a beltman belt, but if you saw me on the street you would not be looking at Tactical Tom and his 5.11 gear. Inconspicuous appearance is a big part of the game of concealment.
    I'll admit I do occasionally wear an NRA hat. I get one every year for sponsoring the FNRA banquet. Seems like a waste not to wear it. My watch is also a S&W, but that's a little harder to see.

    I've never understood all the gun shirts. I saw one the other day that had a picture of an AK-47 on it and said "Here zombie, zombie, zombie!" underneath. They may be funny, but I'll stick with my plain colored shirts. The less attention the better, IMO.

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    Member Array 3dfxMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rably View Post
    That's the way it was put to me also - if I have to identify myself to LEO, then I also have to inform them that I have a CCW permit. And as always, it is better to inform them even though it was not required, than the opposite.

    The article did make me realize that I tend to straighten my shirt and put my forearm on it to verify that it's covered - I've got to be more observant about that.

    I'm not big on vests (or "shoot me first" vests, as I've heard them refered to). Inconspicuous to the average person is my goal. If someone is very observant, they may be able to tell that it is something other than a cell phone or an insulin pump, but most people have no idea. If your pants are sagging on one side, get a better belt and/or tighten yours up more, or maybe don't try to CC with a .454 Casull (or carry 2 of them to balance things out?)
    More specifically, if they ask you for ID and you are carrying your weapon, you must show them both your DL and your CHL (or reciprocal state equivalent). If you are not carrying your weapon, you can still show him both, but the CHL is not required. You don't technically have to inform them if you are carrying a weapon, but they are likely to ask when you present your CHL and I believe you are required to inform at that point. For most people, the only time this will come into play is during a traffic stop.

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    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    Read it before but always new to someone so it is a good read. I don't agree with the clothing type as I own nothing that has any gun logo. I do own a couple camo hats does that count? but only wear them when hunting or fishing.

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