Been messing around with my Serpa and XD

This is a discussion on Been messing around with my Serpa and XD within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So with all the talk and the recent video about the Serpa holster I got mine out and started playing around with it. I found ...

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Thread: Been messing around with my Serpa and XD

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    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    Been messing around with my Serpa and XD

    So with all the talk and the recent video about the Serpa holster I got mine out and started playing around with it. I found if used like usual my finger falls on the side of the frame right where it rounds off to the trigger guard and if I am pressing hard my finger slips down to the the trigger guard. If I happen to push the button with the end or first pad of my finger with my nuckle bent my finger falls right on the trigger engaging the trigger safety and the web of my hand has the grip safety engaged.

    This kind of worry's me as I carry every day in a MTAC holster so I just draw. What happens if crap is happening and I go to draw not thinking about the holster and don't push the button right once my brain remembers I have to push a button? I understand muscle memory the best example of this I can think of for my self is; I am a duck hunter tried and true and have always shot a pump gun. I have shot thousands of round both at trap as well as birds on the wing. Every once and a while someone will say hey you should try my auto. I like to shoot new weapons so I usually oblige. Well every time I have shot a auto and I have shot them a few times it never fails I always try and pump that auto.

    Now I am an average guy that goes to work everyday and has family things on the weekend so I don't have tons of time or money to take a lot of training and lets face it, you have to use it to remember it so just taking a simple training class is not really enough to be complete. I am very handy and good with my hands and its not like I am new to firearms but I am not sure the Serpa holster is worth the risks for me.

    I guess to each his own but I would hope that everyone using a Serpa would take the time to mess around with there holster and see if its as easy for you as it is for me to find the trigger while pushing the button.

    I purchased the Serpa with a shoulder rig to use fishing and hiking but also liked the belt option for when I am outdoors. I carry concealed and like my MTAC for that.
    Last edited by muddy; July 17th, 2011 at 08:39 AM.

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    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    So with all the talk and the recent video about the Serpa holster I got mine out and started playing around with it. I found if used like usual my finger falls on the side of the frame right where it rounds off to the trigger guard and if I am pressing hard my finger slips down to the the trigger guard. If I happen to push the button with the end or first pad of my finger with my nuckle bent my finger falls right on the trigger engaging the trigger safety and the web of my hand has the grip safety engaged.

    This kind of worry's me as I carry every day in a MTAC holster so I just draw. What happens if crap is happening and I go to draw not thinking about the holster and don't push the button right once my brain remembers I have to push a button? I understand muscle memory the best example of this I can think of for my self is; I am a duck hunter tried and true and have always shot a pump gun. I have shot thousands of round both at trap as well as birds on the wing. Every once and a while someone will say hey you should try my auto. I like to shoot new weapons so I usually oblige. Well every time I have shot a auto and I have shot them a few times it never fails I always try and pump that auto.

    Know I am an average guy that goes to work everyday and has family things on the weekend so I don't have tons of time or money to take a lot of training and lets face it, you have to use it to remember it so just taking a simple training class is not really enough to be complete. I am very handy and good with my hands and its not like I am new to firearms but I am not sure the Serpa holster is worth the risks for me.

    I guess to each his own but I would hope that everyone using a Serpa would take the time to mess around with there holster and see if its as easy for you as it is for me to find the trigger while pushing the button.
    With those kinds of problems, I wouldn't chance it. I'd stick with the MTAC and sell the Serpa. Not that it's a bad holster, but it's not for everybody.
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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    if for no other reason than a stray end of a cover gamete could jam it up....its not viable for cc
    UMMV and your needs and style of dress may be different. but since i 1st was handed one to 'check it out' i said 'no' than and have found no reason to change my mind. besides, there is so much else made to chose from, why have something with a very real short fall built in?
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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    With those kinds of problems, I wouldn't chance it. I'd stick with the MTAC and sell the Serpa. Not that it's a bad holster, but it's not for everybody.
    Ditto, if Blackhawk has the regular CQC holster without the Serpa feature which is a pretty good holster for the cost. I love the mounting hardware etc. But for retention I'd rather have an ALS.

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    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    For the Glock, for me, it works perfectly. And it's more natural for me than my thumb break holsters, upon clearing the holster my finger is properly indexed.

    With all the variables that come into play; I wonder how much is it's compatibility with the XD and how much is it's compatibility with individuals.

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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    I trained to draw out of the SERPA. I bet if you watched me carefully I push for the button on my Crossbreed. What I do know is that the finger placement has transferred to every holster I use. When I draw from concealment with my CB or beltslide my finger is in the same spot as with the SERPA.

    But I also OC and use the SERPA. So I wear it as much or more than any other holster. It's not for everyone though. And even drawing and knowing I will have to push the button, you sometimes miss enough to slow down the draw.

    My guess is that if you are drawing in defense your finger is going for the trigger anyway, SERPA, MTAC, or otherwise. But if the button is the issue then it's practice with it or replace it I guess.
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    Ex Member Array G19inLV's Avatar
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    Serpas are dangerous, it's been proven over and over. I would not use or recommend one.

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    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    I guess to each his own but I would hope that everyone using a Serpa would take the time to mess around with there holster and see if its as easy for you as it is for me to find the trigger while pushing the button.
    Well, after coming to the startling discovery today that I've been using a Serpa for quite some time, I can honestly say that my finger has never once had my finger "find the trigger" when drawing. And that would include hundreds of draws, whether it is just taking the gun out of the holster for the night, or when practicing. However, after looking at some of the different models, I've come to the conclusion that different models may put your finger in different places. I'm not sure if this is intentional on their part to offer a variety of choices, or what. I remember the guy at the gun store telling me how great that holster was when I bought it because he pointed out the location of the button makes it nearly impossible to grab the trigger even if you are in a big hurry.

    I have some other holsters that require a lot of pressure to pull them out and I'm actually more worried about those. Since there is no release button to press, I'm afraid that in a hurry my finger might find itself anywhere on the gun, inlcuding the trigger, when I pull it out. In practice, so far that has never happened with any of them. Even if it did, I practice with snap-caps. But I feel pretty confident in my holster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    I am very handy and good with my hands and its not like I am new to firearms but I am not sure the Serpa holster is worth the risks for me.

    I guess to each his own but I would hope that everyone using a Serpa would take the time to mess around with there holster and see if its as easy for you as it is for me to find the trigger while pushing the button.
    When the SERPA first came out and there was such a rave about them I looked into them and the first thing I thought was, "I don't know." I didn't give any opinions on them and wanted to see some feedback and sure enough, shooting schools started banning them, you heard reports of people shooting themselves of having negligent discharges. Not to mention the foiled draws.

    BUT there were still those who raved and raved and raved about them. Especially your military guys who could mount them on the gear and not have to worry about losing their guns while running around in firefights.

    As someone who does holster reviews I was bombarded by requests to do one of the SERPA and finally broke down and bought one.

    I'm VERY versed in firearms and different holster methods and while I did not experience my finger slipping into the trigger guard I DID see how it was possible. Usually, while drawing your finger is straight and not putting any pressure on the gun at all. I have heard of some schools teaching putting pressure on the frame above the trigger guard but I don't see the point/need. The only pressure I think your trigger finger should be applying is to the trigger while engaging it with your sights on the target. If you get used to putting pressure with your trigger finger at any other time I think it's far too tempting to let that pressure slip down a quarter of an inch and into the trigger guard. That's just my lay opinion. Me=trigger finger does one thing and one thing only.. operate trigger.

    I also experience missing the button a few times while practicing the draw with the SERPA or having my draw fumbled because I didn't push it just right. People talk about not carrying guns with safeties because they don't want to miss disengaging them when in the time of need.. well, the same is true with the holster. I was also concerned that if one were on the ground and pinned on one's side you would not be able to get to the button at all and may not be able to get your gun at all due to the button being recessed.

    I think it is a viable option for people who open carry and want a retention device and I can definitely see its use and appeal for those in the military who are fighting primarily with a long gun and are going to a pistol only in EXTREME cases and need to have their pistols mounted outside of all of their gear.. but I am not a huge supporter of the SERPA for regular civilian (esp concealed) carry.

    I'm still not a big fan of it and have never carried with it outside of my home.. probably never will.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I actually saw 2 guys at the Range last week that were LEO's and were shooting and practicing tactical reloads etc.These guys weren't just run of the mill cops,I'm thinking they were Swat.I saw one was wearing a Serpa and carrying a glock,I said something to him about the guy shooting himself with a 1911 in a Serpa,His buddy said the problem is some people when they push in the release will let their finger ride up the holster as they draw and as the trigger guard clears the holster their finger drops inside the trigger guard,and can cause an AD
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    cj
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    Glad to see the opinions here. I wrote something up recently based on the cognitive and physiological responses of the human body under stress, and how they didn't work well with the Serpa design, and you'd think I'd have threatened many peoples' first born children. I find it hard to believe all the people who claim that they've used them for years without a problem...and how many people who have NDs have been doing exactly whatever it was they were doing for years when they have the ND? Encouraging (or having a design which functions by) pressure with the trigger finger inward seems to have some fairly obvious potential issues. Now throw in maybe some grit getting in there at some point requiring harder pressure, etc., and at least on my XD setup I had received in a trade, the Serpa finger placement is uncomfortably low toward the trigger guard.

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    Member Array rably's Avatar
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    One thing I can add is that the release on the Serpa does line up differently on different weapons. With my USP, my finger ends up indexed along the bottom of the slide, just where you would want it. The my M&P, my finger ends along the frame, and therefore closer to getting inside the trigger guard (although still above it). Nothing is impossible but with my USP, it would be extremely difficult for me to release the catch and have my finger slide inside the trigger guard. On my M&P however, I can see how I could possibly still be pressing down where the release was as I pulled the weapon out of the holster and have my finger slip off the bottom of the frame and into the trigger guard. The cant of the holster could also contribute to the likelihood that your finger might go someplace bad.

    Unfortunately, this realization means that my Serpas have been relegated to being dust-collectors.

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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Well, they work very well for me. I own several and I carry regularly in them. In fact, I was carrying my G23 in one when I had to draw for real in Jan. of 2009. It was under stress, the scum bag in front of me was trying to draw a gun on me to take my car or just rob me one or the other and I not only beat him to the draw, but my finger didn't contact the trigger nor did I have an AD. (and thankfully, I didn't end up having to shoot the scum bag as he realized he was beat to the draw and turned and ran)

    I have practiced and practiced with my SERPA holsters. I have actually devoted a lot of time to it. I know I can do it both from my practice and for the instance where I had to do it for real and it worked exactly as it was supposed to. I understand that some people don't like them or they aren't for them. That's fine with me, but I think it is a very good design and there is a lot of irrational fear about them. Very similar to the irrational fear some have about carrying with a round in the chamber. If you aren't confident in your skills with the SERPA, then just don't carry in one. But they are not inherently dangerous or a bad design. It all boils down to, if you do not put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire the gun, you won't have an ND.

    Here is a link to a thread where I posted some pics that I did that shows why some people have negligent discharges with the SERPA: SERPA, it isn't "unsafe", the truth
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    Member Array OtoPA's Avatar
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    While at Gunsite, a fellow shooter jammed his Serpa with a small rock. I think he picked up the rock while prone and on reholstering it went 'click' and locked up. He had to give up on the holster. I have a Serpa that I use for my 92FS and USPSA that i purposefully disabled the switch. It's got plenty of retention for my specific use. I get to keep my finger straight so it's more in line with my Galco and 1911.

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    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    Well, they work very well for me. I own several and I carry regularly in them. In fact, I was carrying my G23 in one when I had to draw for real in Jan. of 2009. It was under stress, the scum bag in front of me was trying to draw a gun on me to take my car or just rob me one or the other and I not only beat him to the draw, but my finger didn't contact the trigger nor did I have an AD. (and thankfully, I didn't end up having to shoot the scum bag as he realized he was beat to the draw and turned and ran)

    I have practiced and practiced with my SERPA holsters. I have actually devoted a lot of time to it. I know I can do it both from my practice and for the instance where I had to do it for real and it worked exactly as it was supposed to. I understand that some people don't like them or they aren't for them. That's fine with me, but I think it is a very good design and there is a lot of irrational fear about them. Very similar to the irrational fear some have about carrying with a round in the chamber. If you aren't confident in your skills with the SERPA, then just don't carry in one. But they are not inherently dangerous or a bad design. It all boils down to, if you do not put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire the gun, you won't have an ND.

    Here is a link to a thread where I posted some pics that I did that shows why some people have negligent discharges with the SERPA: SERPA, it isn't "unsafe", the truth
    Exactly. It works for some people, not for others. In this case though, I don't feel it has anything to do with confidence. I equate it to a manual safety. Some people swear by them, while others think of it as one more thing that can go wrong during a draw. At the end of the day, if it works for you, that's great. I, for one, won't bother with it. If I want retention, I'll use a holster with a thumb break or one of my tightly made kydex holsters.
    Last edited by Spidey2011; July 18th, 2011 at 02:38 PM.

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