Ohio CHL holder has life threatened by hot headed cop in Canton, OH

This is a discussion on Ohio CHL holder has life threatened by hot headed cop in Canton, OH within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not a big poster here, just a lurker...but thought it should be known to people here who are not members of OFCC, and residents of ...

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Thread: Ohio CHL holder has life threatened by hot headed cop in Canton, OH

  1. #1
    New Member Array DDay's Avatar
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    Ohio CHL holder has life threatened by hot headed cop in Canton, OH

    Not a big poster here, just a lurker...but thought it should be known to people here who are not members of OFCC, and residents of Ohio (or perhaps those visiting), and even those who just need to be informed at the gross injustice of this encounter. The link will summarize, and has full dash cam video now.

    Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Conduct

    The discussion thread for the video: Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums • View topic - D.Cam: Canton PD Notification Arrest & Officer Goes Berserk

    The original thread on the encounter, before the video came out: Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums • View topic - Encounter - bad, really bad

    Hope this is the right place to post this. My apologies if not. I searched Canton, but didn't find anyone who had posted this yet.

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  3. #2
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    I think all three sides were very stupid.

    The cop for losing his cool and being a loud mouth.
    The CCW'er for being out committing a crime while carrying and not informing (Notice he chose to defend his reasons for his location and picking up a whore first)
    Ohioans for concealed carry for
    A) interjecting their made for television opinions on LEO tactics
    B) using poor grammar and misspelling simple words (which is typical of them- Note to them- please retain a good proof reader on staff. You are making the organization look foolish.)
    C) choosing to defend a case when at best, their defense is "the cop was rude and mean" ( and yeah, he was. But thats hardly a defense)


    Moderator hat on;

    I've been deleting these types of threads recently, due to them always turning into a Rusty Shackleford tin foil hat fest. DC.com is not an activist site. In all reality, these kind of threads don't belong here. But, I do think this one can and will spark some good conversation. Keep it clean and keep facts facts.
    Last edited by SIXTO; July 21st, 2011 at 09:41 AM.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    The article says that this happened "early in the morning". This isn't your typical traffic stop of a law abiding CCW holder. As stated above, the guy was stupid for being out after midnight with a hooker and then for not telling the officer up front (before he started poking around in the car), that he was armed. Have to admit...the officer could probably use a little desk time or training to keep his emotions in check. Why would he start rooting around in the car before he determined if the driver was a danger to him. I don't think I've ever seen an officer start searching a car with the people still in it....that didn't seem too smart.
    Tzadik and BaconHunter like this.
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    Someone (LEO) had a bad day. We all have them. Could he have been more professional, yes. But this article is blowing up one incident. I have had to inform LEOs a couple times of my status (once while I was sitting behind him in his car giving a statement) and I have had only one incident that had the slightest reaction. I was getting a speeding ticket coming from my kid's school. I did not have my carry piece on me so I didn't think to mention I had a CCW. After running my license the LEO came back to my vehicle with his hand on his gun and proceeded to question me about it. This was the only reaction I have ever really got and was totally understandable given the circumstance.

    Having a CCW means you have a DUTY to know and follow the states rules regarding the license. If you have a DL and break a traffic law, there are consequences for that. If you have a CCW and break those rules there are also consequences for that. This is not a CCW issue this is an example of a guy having a bad day and letting it affect his professional interactions (happens to me from time to time). My experience with Ohio's Law Enforcement community has been nothing but positive regarding CCW.

    IMHO
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    There were several mistakes made,the dash cam definitely isn't catching the LEO at his best,I have a duty to inform in Tx and during the 2 times I have been stopped It wasn't a problem.I don't think your average CHL holder is going to be hanging around seedy areas of town during the wee hours of the morning,and when I was an LEO during hours of darkness with light vehicle traffic we would patrol "darked" out,it's amazing what you run up on when they don't see headlights coming down the street
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    In put the bulk of the blame on the CCW holder. Dumb dude. Why is he out there with bad elements and carrying a gun. Heck he seemed a little off cognitively as well. When we get our CCW license it required an increase in responsibility and accountability on our part. If a person can not handle that or know the law then surrender the CCW permit or don't get it. The guy had the chance to immediately identify himself, especially when the officer was poking around in the back seat. I am shocked OFCC would come to his defense so quickly. I might want to separate from him and say he is not the usual holder of a permit.

    Sure the officer seemed to have a temper problem but can you blame him? Tough streets, late night, bad elements who lie... Seemed like the biggest mistake was leaving the dude in the car and poking around in it. This is a mistake they both made.

    The real shame here is this make the news and reflects on all CCW holders and this is what the public then perceives of all of us.
    It's not a problem til they make it one!

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Lots of things wrong with this deal.

    Should driver have been doing what he did. Probably not. Stopping on the side of the road, with folks you don't know who they are or what they do professionally doesn't really make much sense. I didn't really see where the officers gave him an opportunity to declare that he was in possession of a firearm.

    The younger LEO, well, here it goes, he should probably find a different line of work. I usually am pretty supportive of LEO's and their jobs, but this guy was way over the top and the threats that he made to the CHL holder on tape/video probably aren't going to play out well for him.

    Back to the must inform rules. In Texas the statutes are pretty clear.
    GC 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license
    holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's
    person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license
    holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license
    holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the
    department and the license holder's handgun license.
    I don't know what Ohio laws states exactly, but in this instance, the LEO's let the driver sit in the car for a long, long time without ever engaging the driver. if the driver is told to shut up and sit quietly, or whatever without being given an opportunity by the officer to inform them you have a CHL the law definately needs to be changed so there is a definative time when you are required to inform. It would be nice of someone could post the Ohio statute regarding duty to inform.

    I understand that the CHL holder was cleared of any charges, and the agency wants a guarantee that no charges will be filed against the agency which he refused to commit to. Generally those offers aren't given when the department is confident in its actions or the officers actions.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    It would be nice of someone could post the Ohio statute regarding duty to inform.
    The ORC code is 2923.16(e)(3). Here is a link for the whole thing. Section E 3 is what we are primarily dealing with here.
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdog44 View Post
    The real shame here is this make the news and reflects on all CCW holders and this is what the public then perceives of all of us.
    Could not agree more. Bad press for the majority.
    We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justified View Post
    Someone (LEO) had a bad day. We all have them.
    In my business - private industry (Fortune 100 aerospace) - I would be subject to suspension and possible termination if I acted that way on the job. "Having a bad day" is no excuse for running off the mouth and acting abusively, much less saying "I should have put 10 holes in you."

    I was getting a speeding ticket coming from my kid's school. I did not have my carry piece on me so I didn't think to mention I had a CCW. After running my license the LEO came back to my vehicle with his hand on his gun and proceeded to question me about it. This was the only reaction I have ever really got and was totally understandable given the circumstance.
    You mean in Ohio you have to inform the LEO that you have a CCW, even if you're not carrying???
    ccman likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    In my business - private industry (Fortune 100 aerospace) - I would be subject to suspension and possible termination if I acted that way on the job. "Having a bad day" is no excuse for running off the mouth and acting abusively.



    You mean in Ohio you have to inform the LEO that you have a CCW, even if you're not carrying???
    We don't have to inform if we aren't carrying but our CCW is tied to our DL and when he ran my DL he saw I was a CCW. It might have put him on edge slightly.

    I'm not saying what he did was right or acceptable by any means. I am not trying to get him off the hook. I just get annoyed by the mass publications of bad press associated with CCW holders. I want to read a story that goes like this, "A local law enforcement officer made a routine traffic stop today. The motorist he was pulling over was a concealed weapon permit holder. They were both cordial and everything ended up just honkey dory".
    ccman likes this.
    We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us.
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    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    I'm going to have to drop most of the blame on the officer, but he COULD have still informed him. If I were him, I would've ignored the order to shut up and said real fast, "I'm carrying a concealed handgun and I do have a permit" or something to that effect.

    As for what he was doing, that's irrelevant in this case. He wasn't charged with anything to do with the hooker, so the only thing he did wrong was not inform, and he did make an attempt. The officer screwed up. He acted in an unprofessional manner, and there was no reason for it. Telling a guy that you "should have put 10 bullets in him" and "execute him for being stupid" is not the right way to handle it. IMO, if you're a cop, you need to be able to control your temper. If you can't, you don't need a badge. Plain and simple.

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    Bad all around in that, but a couple things here. First it would have help if the second leo had whether it be had it on him or turned on had a mic for the camera to pick up what was being siad inside the car. For all we know he could have repeatedly tried to tell the cop searching the car. Both leos seemed like they had a bad attitiude in the video. Whether the guy was commiting a crime with a hooker or not is not verifyable by any of us let alone the cops because he did say he's known her for years from driving cab. BUT shady side of town late at night, bad idea - not doing anything in his power to inform, very bad idea. There was just to many things done way wrong on both sides.

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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    very typical of how they behave in my area also.

    dash cams have made them clean up their language very well, but the overall heavy handed
    manor of the 'event' is the same.

    events i am speaking of occurred during the day, for this fellow at night being in 'strange' company
    rather leads to doubting anything he says--but the manor in which he acts was never a danger to the officer;
    who says about having his head in the car---location was wrong.

    the kid was in fear of the officers who would not let him speak.
    blame and penality goes here to the men in blue.

    if a jury gets to see the video, the officers will be seeking other employment.

    ---------------------------

    i shoot with and call many local and state officers friends. they have given me their cards with their cell number on the back.
    when i was working in the cities these cards got handed to the officers with my license. i would be stopped monthly it seemed for being white
    and in the inner city--so i had to either be looking for drugs or booty. when the officer asked 'what is this' my answer
    was that ' they can verify who i am as he is my friend'. saved me a lot of anguish at the hands of many a control freak wearing blue.
    it became this way in the late 1990's.

    never an apology after they made the call--rather the frustration that they could not roust me was palatable.
    30 years ago a cop like that was so rear to find cause he would be 'reassigned' very quickly.
    today it has become normal to have an encounter that is made much more uncomfortable than it need be.

    that 'we' fear 'our' police is a social sickness.
    sadly, but one of many.
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    If you are going to be an unruly idiot, expect to be treated like one.

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