LEGAL TO CARRY?: FL Resident CCW; Living in Delaware Part-Time (w/ rental lease)

LEGAL TO CARRY?: FL Resident CCW; Living in Delaware Part-Time (w/ rental lease)

This is a discussion on LEGAL TO CARRY?: FL Resident CCW; Living in Delaware Part-Time (w/ rental lease) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi, 'Thank you' to everyone; I have found this forum very helpful. Now, I am a new member with a some very specific questions, if ...

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  1. #1
    New Member Array holmes's Avatar
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    LEGAL TO CARRY?: FL Resident CCW; Living in Delaware Part-Time (w/ rental lease)

    Hi,
    'Thank you' to everyone; I have found this forum very helpful. Now, I am a new member with a some very specific questions, if anyone could help:

    1. I am a permanent resident of Florida, but I am a university student living part-time in DE. Am I able to use my FL resident CCW permit to carry in DE while I nevertheless have a lease in DE? (I suspect the answer is yes. However, I am concerned, given that I have seen one interpretation of DE law on a forum which suggests that the DE reciprocity law was designed to allow out-of-state residents to TRAVEL in Delaware. However, I LIVE in DE temporarily.)

    2. I am not a student at a DE university (but, rather, at a nearby PA university). However, I am often on or near the capus of UD and DSU (given that I live nearby and have local friends). Does DE law forbid me to carry on Delaware University campuses (and, for example, in the Library) all while I am a non-resident of DE with a FL CCW and not a student at a DE university? (I am 50/50 on this at the moment.)

    3. Will a FL resident CCW, valid by reciprocity in DE, allow me to purchase an additional handgun in DE? (I am nearly certain that the answer will be NO!!!!!!)

    Thank you to anyone who can help.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Welcome to DC. These are good questions.
    1 - There is no real or definitive litmus test for state residency. You are declaring yourself a resident of FL, even though you are occupying rental property in DE. Often times, when there is a question regarding residency, it comes down to a preponderance of factors, such as where your cars are registered, where you are working, where you pay taxes, where you vote, etc. For example, I am a resident of NC, but I worked in VA for almost 3 years. I rented a space in a trailer park and stayed there M-F and occasionally on the weekend. I stilled owned my home in NC, I kept my cars registered to NC, I held an NC drivers license, and I paid NC taxes. As far as I know, you can only be a resident of one state and for you that is FL.

    2 - As far as CC in places such as universities and libraries, you will need to consult the laws of each of those states. It sounds like you need to familiarize yourself with both DE and PA. The state's websites should have the required information. Remember, when you are in a particular state, even with reciprocity, you are responsible for following their policies and procedures. For example, if FL allows CC on a univ, but PA does not, you must follow the PA rule.

    3 - This will vary by state law, but generally speaking unless there are extenuating circumstances, like military personnel with confirmed orders to be in a particular location, you can only buy guns in the state of which you are a resident. The requirements for purchasing a gun also varies per state. Again, the state web site should answer all of your questions.

    Hope that helps.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmes View Post
    Hi,
    'Thank you' to everyone; I have found this forum very helpful. Now, I am a new member with a some very specific questions, if anyone could help:

    1. I am a permanent resident of Florida, but I am a university student living part-time in DE. Am I able to use my FL resident CCW permit to carry in DE while I nevertheless have a lease in DE? (I suspect the answer is yes. However, I am concerned, given that I have seen one interpretation of DE law on a forum which suggests that the DE reciprocity law was designed to allow out-of-state residents to TRAVEL in Delaware. However, I LIVE in DE temporarily.)

    2. I am not a student at a DE university (but, rather, at a nearby PA university). However, I am often on or near the capus of UD and DSU (given that I live nearby and have local friends). Does DE law forbid me to carry on Delaware University campuses (and, for example, in the Library) all while I am a non-resident of DE with a FL CCW and not a student at a DE university? (I am 50/50 on this at the moment.)

    3. Will a FL resident CCW, valid by reciprocity in DE, allow me to purchase an additional handgun in DE? (I am nearly certain that the answer will be NO!!!!!!)

    Thank you to anyone who can help.

    First off, welcome to the forum.

    As to your questions.

    1. Since you are a legal resident of Florida and not of Delaware, your FL permit should cover you.

    2. While you may be carrying on a FL permit, you are responsible to follow DE laws as to where carry is legal. It does not appear to be against the law to carry on campus in DE.

    3. Your permit has nothing to do with buying a gun. You are restricted to your state of residency for purchasing a handgun.

    I am not a lawyer, so verify the information yourself to be safe.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Here is your question answered via a DE specific discussion board, please read, they reach a different conclusion.

    UD/Main Street Carry

    Also

    School zone/Campus?
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

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  5. #5
    New Member Array holmes's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses; they are very helpful! I have done a bit more research:

    1. After reading more about residency, etc., I do not foresee any problems here.

    2. I am beginning to think that archer51 is correct. If a DE resident can campus carry while not a student, then a reciprocity holder should be able to as well. What concerns me is the discussion at the link "UD/Main Street Carry" provided by bbqgrill. The discussion there concludes with: "The way I've seen it interpreted (and my lawyer agrees) is that a Delaware resident carrying with a DE CCDW permit is not carrying illegally, and therefore is not prohibited from carrying in a school zone. However, a person carrying in Delaware under reciprocity is prohibited from carrying in a school zone, despite that fact that they are otherwise carrying lawfully." If correct, this statement implies that "reciprocity" carriers are NOT granted the same carry right as Delaware resident carriers.

    However, after reviewing Title 11, Ch. 5, Subchapter VII, sections 1441 and 1457 of the Delaware Code, it would seem that this person's conclusion--i.e. that there is a difference between the campus carry rights of reciprocity-state permit holders and resident Delaware permit holders--cannot be correct, unless there are other laws that come into play. That is, section 1457 concerns campus carry and defines violators as those who are NOT licensed according to 1441. But 1441 defines licensees very clearly: it grants "reciprocity" permit holders (who are holders of resident permits from the states listed on the AG's website) the same rights as Delaware resident permit holders. Here is the passage from 1441 (j):

    "(j) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Code to the contrary, the State of Delaware shall give full faith and credit and shall otherwise honor and give full force and effect to all licenses/permits issued to the citizens of other states where those issuing states also give full faith and credit and otherwise honor the licenses issued by the State of Delaware pursuant to this section and where those licenses/permits are issued by authority pursuant to state law and which afford a reasonably similar degree of protection as is provided by licensure in Delaware. For the purpose of this subsection "reasonably similar" does not preclude alternative or differing provisions nor a different source and process by which eligibility is determined. Notwithstanding the forgoing, if there is evidence of a pattern of issuing licenses/permits to convicted felons in another state, the Attorney General shall not include that state under the exception contained in this subsection even if the law of that state is determined to be "reasonably similar." The Attorney General shall communicate the provisions of this section to the Attorneys General of the several states and shall determine those states whose licensing/permit systems qualify for recognition under this section. The Attorney General shall publish on January 15th of each year a list of all States which have qualified for reciprocity under this subsection. Such list shall be valid for one year and any removal of a State from the list shall not occur without 1 year's notice of such impending removal. Such list shall be made readily available to all State and local law-enforcement agencies within the State as well as to all then-current holders of licenses issued by the State of Delaware pursuant to this Section."

    "Full faith and credit" should mean that a reciprocity permit holder carrying in DE has the rights of a resident DE permit holder. There is, of course, a clause in this passage which allows for differences as "alternative provisions," but the reference there is to the AG's website, which grants reciprocity to Florida permit holders.

    So, if there are no other laws which come into play here, then it SHOULD be the case that IF a DE resident (but non-student) can carry on Main St. Newark or on UD/DSU campuses, THEN a reciprocity carrier should be legally safe as well.

    I need to (a) make positively sure that DE resident holders can carry on campus if they are not students and (b) make sure that 1441 really does grant a FL resident with a FL CCW permit the same rights as a DE resident with a DE permit when it comes to campus carry for non-students. I wil plan to contact a local CCW trainer in the Newark area at minimum. I will post any information I receive!

    3. Thanks for the confirmation of my strong suspicion!

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    in general DE honors a FLA permit, as others have noted you still must comply with all the DE laws regarding concealed carry, visit www.handgunlaw.us for the regs in de.
    as for campus carry, read their regs,
    as for buying a gun in DE, you won't be able to unless you become a de resident,
    if you become a DE resident notify fla as to your address change and you can continue to use your fla permit

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    if you become a DE resident notify fla as to your address change and you can continue to use your fla permit
    Not in DE, a DE resident must have a DE CCW to legally conceal in DE.
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

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  8. #8
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqgrill View Post
    Not in DE, a DE resident must have a DE CCW to legally conceal in DE.
    is that so? so the info on www.handgunlaw.us/states/delaware.pdf is wrong and DE does not reciprocate with FLA? news to me, and someone should alert that website
    I was in DE in May and was carrying while chatting with a state trooper, I guess I am lucky I didn't get locked up

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    is that so? so the info on www.handgunlaw.us/states/delaware.pdf is wrong and DE does not reciprocate with FLA? news to me, and someone should alert that website
    I was in DE in May and was carrying while chatting with a state trooper, I guess I am lucky I didn't get locked up
    Don't be dense; read what I wrote: "a DE resident must have a DE CCW to legally conceal in DE". Is English a second language for you or do you just like to be argumentative? The point is becoming a DE resident invalidates his FL permit for concealed carry in DE, whether he notifies FL or not.
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

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  10. #10
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqgrill View Post
    Don't be dense; read what I wrote: "a DE resident must have a DE CCW to legally conceal in DE". Is English a second language for you or do you just like to be argumentative? The point is becoming a DE resident invalidates his FL permit for concealed carry in DE, whether he notifies FL or not.
    is there any reason for your diatribe?
    I don't agree with your opinion of the law, DE honors out of state permits like FLA's, and AFAIK does not comment on the permit holders residence. FLA does not differentiate between resident and non resident permits, so as I read the laws he is good to go in DE with a FLA permit regardless of where he is domiciled. That being said I could be wrong and www.handgunlaw.us could be wrong, could you point to the DE law that you are basing your assertion on.
    Thanks for your patience with those of us who may not hold concurring views

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    is there any reason for your diatribe?
    I don't agree with your opinion of the law, DE honors out of state permits like FLA's, and AFAIK does not comment on the permit holders residence. FLA does not differentiate between resident and non resident permits, so as I read the laws he is good to go in DE with a FLA permit regardless of where he is domiciled. That being said I could be wrong and Handgunlaw.us could be wrong, could you point to the DE law that you are basing your assertion on.
    Thanks for your patience with those of us who may not hold concurring views
    My diatribe if my comments could possibly be raised to that level of vitiol are based on the fact that I live in Delaware and I am well versed in the laws of my home state. Your comments are incorrect and send the wrong message to the OP or others reading this thread. This is not an opinion or point of view debate, it is decided law. Please read the law from the The State of Delaware delcode.delaware.gov/title11/1441

    Specifically:

    1441. License to carry concealed deadly weapons.

    (j) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Code to the contrary, the State of Delaware shall give full faith and credit and shall otherwise honor and give full force and effect to all licenses/permits issued to the citizens of other states where those issuing states also give full faith and credit and otherwise honor the licenses issued by the State of Delaware pursuant to this section and where those licenses/permits are issued by authority pursuant to state law and which afford a reasonably similar degree of protection as is provided by licensure in Delaware. For the purpose of this subsection "reasonably similar" does not preclude alternative or differing provisions nor a different source and process by which eligibility is determined. Notwithstanding the forgoing, if there is evidence of a pattern of issuing licenses/permits to convicted felons in another state, the Attorney General shall not include that state under the exception contained in this subsection even if the law of that state is determined to be "reasonably similar." The Attorney General shall communicate the provisions of this section to the Attorneys General of the several states and shall determine those states whose licensing/permit systems qualify for recognition under this section. The Attorney General shall publish on January 15th of each year a list of all States which have qualified for reciprocity under this subsection. Such list shall be valid for one year and any removal of a State from the list shall not occur without 1 year's notice of such impending removal. Such list shall be made readily available to all State and local law-enforcement agencies within the State as well as to all then-current holders of licenses issued by the State of Delaware pursuant to this Section.

    Oh and from the AG Office where my daughter and a Marine buddy (Deputy AG) both work:

    attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/crime/concealedweapons.shtml

    Specifically:

    Pursuant to 11 Del.C. ' 1441(j), as of July 11, 2003, Delaware law allows residents of other states who have been issued a concealed deadly weapon license or permit by certain other states to lawfully carry concealed deadly weapons in Delaware if the state that issued the permit or license also recognizes Delaware's concealed deadly weapons licenses, and if Delaware's Attorney General also determines that the concealed deadly weapons licensing or permit laws in the issuing state "afford a reasonably similar degree of protection as is provided by licensure in Delaware." The Attorney General has determined that only states that require proof of training in firearms safety as a part of their licensing or permit process can meet this requirement.

    There is no debate DE residents must possess a DE CCW to legally conceal in DE.

    The fact that FL makes no differentiation resident v. non-resident has no bearing in this matter.

    Are we finished on this subject?
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

    Never argue with an idiot - they'll bring you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  12. #12
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    that's all well and good but a person can be living in de and still be considered a resident of another state, for example I live part of the time in NJ, however I am a FLA resident.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    that's all well and good but a person can be living in de and still be considered a resident of another state, for example I live part of the time in NJ, however I am a FLA resident.
    I never questioned that and, that subject has never been at issue in this thread, you are simply being puerile and argumentative.

    May I remind you of your previous comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    I don't agree with your opinion of the law, DE honors out of state permits like FLA's, and AFAIK does not comment on the permit holders residence.
    I have demonstrated DE law specifically addresses state of legal residence and that my comments are not opinion they are fact.


    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    FLA does not differentiate between resident and non resident permits, so as I read the laws he is good to go in DE with a FLA permit regardless of where he is domiciled.
    Domicled, temporarily, yes, correct; legal residence not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    if you become a DE resident notify fla as to your address change and you can continue to use your fla permit
    Again no, not to legally conceal in DE.


    I am done responding to your comments.
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

    Never argue with an idiot - they'll bring you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  14. #14
    New Member Array holmes's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for this helpul discussion. If I were a DE resident, it seems clear that I could continue to hold my FL permit (as a non-resident permit) for the purpose of carrying in, say, PA; but I would still have to acquire a DE permit to carry in DE.

    As for the resolution to my question number 2, I am leaning more and more toward the belief that concealed carry on UDel or DSU campus is indeed LEGAL in my case. I cannot find much information online, however, beyond the basic Delaware code, so I am going to seek advice in person from a CCW instructor, local authorities, or some other source.

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array vivid2012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmes View Post
    Thank you very much for this helpul discussion. If I were a DE resident, it seems clear that I could continue to hold my FL permit (as a non-resident permit) for the purpose of carrying in, say, PA; but I would still have to acquire a DE permit to carry in DE.

    As for the resolution to my question number 2, I am leaning more and more toward the belief that concealed carry on UDel or DSU campus is indeed LEGAL in my case. I cannot find much information online, however, beyond the basic Delaware code, so I am going to seek advice in person from a CCW instructor, local authorities, or some other source.
    CCW instructor might be the way to go.

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