Another example of why open carry is a bad idea and discretion could keep you alive.

This is a discussion on Another example of why open carry is a bad idea and discretion could keep you alive. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In the OP you stated your thoughts that we have an increase in extremist types of alternatively motivated attacks and in your opinion OC may ...

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Thread: Another example of why open carry is a bad idea and discretion could keep you alive.

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    In the OP you stated your thoughts that we have an increase in extremist types of alternatively motivated attacks and in your opinion OC may make one an initial target. Then you asked for thoughts.

    Here are mine, and they are worth what you're paid for them:

    1) Your opinion may be correct. It seems very logical.

    2) There is the possibility that OC might deter, it has happened before and could again. Who really knows, this is speculation and you asked for thoughts.

    3) If they are that concerned about someone maybe carrying a gun OC or CC, they'll just choose a place that is a gun free zone.

    4) In true political or otherwise extreme motivated attacks, who is to say that carrying at all would make a difference if they used explosives, poison, chemical, bus run through a crowd, etc. techniques.

    5) You think OC would make you more of a target, so you don't do it. I understand that. If others choose to OC, why not just let them do it...what difference does it make what method they choose. You have given them your opinion to think about, so why do they have to agree with your opinion or they are deemed to be wrong? Each person has to make their own choice based on their own conclusions. That's no different than the choice of gun, platform, caliber, etc. If there was only one right choice, then we'd all be carrying the exact same thing in the same holster in the same position.

    PS. On a personal note, given your scenario my personal opinion is that I don't think OC or CC would influence an extremist's planned actions one way or the other...but I do not see a tactical advantage in letting them know you are armed unless time comes you have to use it. That said, I do OC on occasion, typically if I leave work at lunch because I am wearing dress clothes and do not have a tuckable holster. That is once or twice per week. No one ever notices when I OC, but it is a subcompact in a IWB at 3 o'clock with my cell phone on the belt in front of it. When not in work attire, I always conceal but that is my personal preference not necessarily out of any tactical consideration.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
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  3. #62
    Member Array rably's Avatar
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    I think we all agree that OC/CC will have different effects on different types of BGs. Some BGs will go after the OC first, some will leave and not commit the crime, and some will kill everyone they can, not caring whether there are any OC/CC present. I seriously doubt that there are any statistics to help clarify how many times any of these scenarios have been played out (obviously it is impossible to know how many were prevented - as stupid as they can be, not many BGs are going to do an interview saying "I was going to rob XYZ, but I saw a gun so I just left"), so in the end, it is all a matter of opinion. Even in this specific instance, we do not know if the security guard was singled out or not - all we know is that he was "one of the first to be killed". Until or unless the BG explains it, we will never know the "why", and it will be nothing but speculation.

    Everyone has their opinion on the OC/CC issue, and it is their right to have that opinion - yours is no more right or wrong than theirs. Listen to their points, gather whatever facts may be there (and there usually aren't many facts because if there were, it would be more than just an opinion), and form your own.

    And savor the fact that we live in a country where we can have this debate, and where we can form (and freely voice) our own opinions.

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    If you were there you could have had an AD and ended the situation immediately.
    but,. Although that was funny as hell.

    Thing is, those who OC feel that they are educaters, and that by practicing OC they are exercising their rights. Now, I am defintely not a fan of OC, but, its their right, and I support it.
    My agency forbids us from OC on our own time, and the policy states if we OC, the credentials, ie..badge must be displayed in a conspicuous location.

    There are ups and downs to both methods, so let the user pick their poison according to their own concerns and prioritys.

    It really doesnt matter how you carry, if you are not carrying a real Colt Goverment Model 45acp, or a revolver with hardcast swc bullets, your efforts are futile at best.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  5. #64
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    So you are whatever type of bad guy and walking into the mall to do your nefarious act......
    Who is the more immediate threat to you in the food court? The guy who is wearing a weapon on his hip that you can only see from certain angles and when your sight line is unobstructed or the two Marines in their dress blues having lunch with mom?
    Who are you going to notice first? Who are you going to shoot first? How much time are you going to spend scoping out the lunchtime crowd looking for that one person out of three hundred who is wearing a weapon?
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I do what I think is best for me and mine based on my circumstance...and I don't really care what anyone else does. That's their problem, their decision, and their outcome. That may sound cold, but I have enough to tend to taking care of my own issues much less being concerned with anyone else's decisions. If someone else makes a decision that draws attention to them first, then I now have a slight advantage.

    I have a friend that doesn't even own a gun, but he is glad that people like me do...he says the BGs don't know if he has one or not. He isn't trying to take my guns away and I'm not trying to push my guns on him. He's a grown man, responsible, and educated. He knows the risks of the decision he has made and accepts the responsibilities accordingly. Who am I to say he is wrong. What is right for me is not right for him, and vice versa.
    tcox4freedom and mkh like this.
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  7. #66
    RKM
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    It varies on the attacker. If the attacker is a mass shooter, and plans on either killing themselves at the end of their rampage or being killed, I don't think an OCer or two is going to deter anything. As far as stopping the threat of a mass shooter, as long as he doesn't shoot you first, OC or CC, it doesn't matter, I think they'd work equally. Will the OCer be targeted first? Maybe, if the mass shooter see them. So many variables.

    As far as robberies, I think that in most cases, OC will deter, mainly because people who commit robberies are out to try and gain something, not prove a point as mass shooters are. They want to survive they're robbery. They'll look for a weak target, or an easy ambush. But then again, I have actually read stories of OCer's being targeted BECAUSE they're carrying, and they're robbed of they're gun. Yikes.

    As for me, I CC. I don't want the hassle of the police being called, angry liberals yelling at me, or just generally scaring the ignorant. Plus, I don't like giving off the vibe that I'm trying to be a tough guy, as the general public generally views OCer's. With CC, only I and the people I chose to know, know. I do OC when going to the range, but that's "just because". No other reason.

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKM View Post
    But then again, I have actually read stories of OCer's being targeted BECAUSE they're carrying, and they're robbed of they're gun. Yikes.
    That's a risk you take no matter what. Someone nefarious gets the drop on you, you're going to end up giving up everything. Phone, wallet, keys, and even gun. While OC might be a way to get yourself spotted, it's never NOT a risk.

  9. #68
    RKM
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    That's a risk you take no matter what. Someone nefarious gets the drop on you, you're going to end up giving up everything. Phone, wallet, keys, and even gun. While OC might be a way to get yourself spotted, it's never NOT a risk.
    Of course it's a risk getting robbed of your gun OC or CC. But I was referring to being targeted BECAUSE of the gun. At least with CC you have the element of surprise. And besides, getting robbed while CCing, you're not being targeted BECAUSE your gun. The BG will usually plan accordingly knowing you're armed if you're OC. With CC, you're being robbed because you appear weak. Of course you can still being robbed of your pistol while carrying concealed, but you still have advantage.

    Again, there are variables with everything. You can't just think OC will deter crimes because you appear stronger than an unarmed person. But CCing, you can't assume you'll ALWAYS have the element of surprise.

    Choose what works best for you. That's what I did.

  10. #69
    Member Array Bigkahuna's Avatar
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    It makes no difference in the long run if you OC or CC. The bottom line is that we are out there. No one will ever know for sure how many robberies, rapes or massacres were prevented by one of us being there either OC or CC. What ever your choice, we are our own best defence. Here endith the lesson.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    The thoughts are more like whining because someone took your ball away. I don't care. If you like amateur carry then do so. The world is not laughing with you.
    Whining? You make obviously inflammatory statements, while having your facts wrong, and act like you have the answer to the thing you hate. Then you basically get pegged for jumping to a conclusion, but keep up the drivel about how horrible OC is.

    I'm going to stop now before SIXTO has another episode with a raging OC'r when he's off duty.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  12. #71
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    Right now I'm reading through the dozens of documented cases here in the U.S. where an OCer was strategically targeted at the outset of a violent crime.






    Hahahaha! Just kidding. THERE AREN'T ANY.
    sigmanluke likes this.
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  13. #72
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    Not Looking To Pick A Fight Here But..

    Many of you OC's here made the statement that you've carried and no one has noticed.

    Really..!!..? You're able to read other peoples minds? I hate to tell you, but NO OC'er can truthfully make that a factual statement .. that is unless you're out in the middle of isolated nowhere by yourself.

    If you're out in public 1.. 10.. or even more people could have noticed. Just because they didn't run up to you and mention it doesn't mean they didn't see.

    I CC most of the time, with OC'ing limited to when I've been hunting.. or when I'm part of our outdoor Cowboy re-enactment theatrical group, then I carry a pair of 44 cal C&B's.

    FireStar M40
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  14. #73
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I guess if all the police give up their uniforms and carry concealed under business casual, crime will drop since the BGs won't be able to target cops. Wait...
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
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  15. #74
    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    Honestly I'm tired of this crap, stop trying to tell other people how to live their lives.
    Xader likes this.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

  16. #75
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireStar M40 View Post
    Many of you OC's here made the statement that you've carried and no one has noticed.

    Really..!!..? You're able to read other peoples minds? I hate to tell you, but NO OC'er can truthfully make that a factual statement .. that is unless you're out in the middle of isolated nowhere by yourself.

    If you're out in public 1.. 10.. or even more people could have noticed. Just because they didn't run up to you and mention it doesn't mean they didn't see.

    I CC most of the time, with OC'ing limited to when I've been hunting.. or when I'm part of our outdoor Cowboy re-enactment theatrical group, then I carry a pair of 44 cal C&B's.

    FireStar M40
    When you ask members of your store management team if they happened to notice the guy who just walked past them with a gun, and they reply "No, where is he?", to me that's a pretty good indication. As always, the opinion of others may vary. I'm not advocating open carry. I'm just saying that unless you are doing something else to attract attention to yourself (like carrying a revolver in your hand through the streets of Brentwood, TN), a lot of people will be too busy with their own stuff to even notice you. Now, if one person notices and calls everyone else's attention to it then all bets are off. That's the reason I didn't say anything until the guy had left the store and was merrily on his way. He wasn't hurting anything. He was just a goober celebrating his 2nd amendment rights and the fact that he's a resident of a state that allows open carry.

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