A rant about places you can't carry

This is a discussion on A rant about places you can't carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; On this, and other gun websites, there are frequent posts about : "My employer forbids guns" "I can't carry in Joe's restaurant, they are posted..." ...

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Thread: A rant about places you can't carry

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array mastercapt's Avatar
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    A rant about places you can't carry

    On this, and other gun websites, there are frequent posts about:
    "My employer forbids guns"
    "I can't carry in Joe's restaurant, they are posted..."
    " I can't carry on campus"
    Etc, Etc.

    First, let me just say that the last 3 places I worked at banned guns (and weapons). I was disappointed that I could not carry, even though one place was in a neighborhood where the COPS busted people selling drugs, outside of the building.. We had cameras and security in the parking lot, and vehicle breakins did not happen. I was envolved in security and E.H.&S and had to enforce the rules, aslo. They even banned guns locked in your car, until we showed the management the Florida law which specifically allows this.

    Employers: Its their right to ban guns/weapons. When you work for someone, it is leagally implied that you are in a contract and must abide by the rules. Violation could mean discharge. I certainly would not want it on my recird being fired for having a gun on premisis.

    Now, we get many posts: " My employer bans guns, what can I do?"
    Really-- nothing. Many companies are owned by another controlling corporation somewhere else. (Ours was NY city). Most of these rules are the result of: 1. A past incident. 2. Company insurance company wanting to raise rates unless.... 3. Company attorney(s) think it is a good idea and it will avoid lawsuits after the fact. I am not saying I agree, but that's corporate thinking. They pass rules down, and you have to abide. So, ask yourself: Is it worth loosing your job? And having a bad reference? Or maybe getting arrested? Most responses with the hose posts agree with what I am saying
    Same thing with campus carry not allowed. Most colleges are state owned, so its regulated by law.
    Nuff said? In Florida they are changing the law to carry concealed (if you have a permit) in "post secondary schools" meaning colleges, both community and 4 year.
    Restaurants ( or stores) who post sinage against guns. Here you may do something. Get a petition started with your CWP friends saying you refuse to patronize them while they are posted against guns. Hit them in their bottom line. And don't argue that the sign is not official, it still has teeth in Florida as well as many states. Cause a scene? The cops will be called. wasn't a CWP holder shot somewhere because of an overacting store employee?

    Oh, yes. About must inform/non inform. If you treat the officer with respect, and he will treat you the same. They know that someone informing is not the type of person which will use the gun on them. Florida is a non inform state. Most separtments have "armed citizen" training. Most are cool about it, if they know you have it. I will inform. One officer said "we ride 2 to a car. we stop you for something traffic. My partner is on the passenger side watching your hands. You reach for your wallet and he sees a gun near your hand. What do you suppose happens next?"

    This is not here to start a war, however, when posting the above questions, think about it first. What you are asking is "should I break the law and/or company rules and carry anyway?"

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  3. #2
    Member Array ConcealedG30's Avatar
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    If its properly concealed you have to make the choice its personal. I feel naked without my guns. I've only been carrying a few months.

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    I'm one of the forutnate few when it comes to the work place. Three of the 4 owners of the company are have their permits. The fourth is not anti, just isn't interested in handguns. They know I carry and we will sit around after work and talk guns. They also know that when I go to a job site I do not carry into the site, but secure it in the truck. It's nice working at a place that upholds your rights.
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    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    Employers have property rights, but I have a right to live. Employers property rights don't make it ok for them to murder me, if I am to be completely disarmed due to their policy, to where my hands and SA are all I have, will they be held liable in my death? Will they continue to provide for my loved ones after I die? In most jurisdictions if you participate felony and anyone dies as a result of that felony you can be held for murder, if you remove my right to defend myself and make me an "easy target" has my employer not just assisted in that felony, and is not in some way responsible for the position I am in?

    Public colleges here are a state funded corporation, any government subdivision cannot make law or rules prohibiting firearms in a location other than the 5 locations outlined in state law, colleges are not on that list, I've every legal right to do so, I can open carry on state campus all day long as average Joe, the second I become a student, an empty holster in the back seat of the car is grounds for immediate expulsion. These rules apply to criminal justice students with permits, including those in the Masters or Doctorial students that are already working as peace officers. Having walked some campuses, buildings are completely unsecured, and several state campuses are in the middle of urban areas open to anyone and many modes of transportation.

    Business that post signs, much like the employers, what liability are they assuming for my safety? The outdated security camera above the register is hardly going to protect me from harm, if it will even be able to identify the person that brought harm to me as they're running off and I'm on the ground stabbed because I didn't have enough cash on hand my wallet. By all means don't patronize those who have no respect for my personal responsibility or my life in the name of their dollar; however there are some local monopolies that do not offer me that option without undo burden of travel.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
    All of the above ask that I forgo my unalienable right to liberty, and risk my unalienable right to life; forefit my right to keep and bear arms that shall not be infringed, all so that a property owner can feel good?

    Inform? When we start the traffic stop he doesn't know me I don't know him and he initiated the contact. 2 out of 5 times respect toward me had gone out the window before he cleared the front of his vehicle let alone approached mine; respect is a two way street, treat me as such and I'll respond in kind, we all saw the Canton explosion, and really I don't know where Sixto works so I know the person I'm dealing with and there are many different people behind the badge, most is not all, and just like CC'ers LEOs have their bad apples and people having rough days now and then too. I also read many stories where informing is being done with hope to get out of a ticket, I am not in a must inform state, and I'm not going to try and use the fact that I am to attempt to leverage an easy out. I can also structure every detail of nonverbal behavior to demonstrate clear compliant nonthreatening actions and intent. It is not legislated that I refer to a fellow adult that I do not know personally as Ma'am or Sir, nor should it be legislated that I be required to inform, even if it becomes part of a routine practice; and I should be allowed to reserve the right to keep facts to myself if the situation dictates it is the wiser course of action.

    Glock Certified Armorer

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    Member Array Nathanimal's Avatar
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    My biggest problem is college campuses and bars. In Washington state we cannot enter any establishment(or part of) that holds a liquor license. So now I am forced to not go to dinner with friends/classmates/colleagues because I don't have a car to stow my weapon in. If I were to carry on my college campus I would be breaking policy and face expulsion/termination. In the state I am going to school next year I would face criminal charges as well. I am not worried about needing my weapon at school as much as I am during my travels to and from. The school is relatively safe. However, I use public transportation and walk to do all my errands and my commute.

    I am dealing with this in the short term as best I can, school is temporary (hopefully, unless I end up teaching). I don't like the fact that to better my life by going to school I have to put it in more danger than if I sat at home on unemployment, or in my old low wage manufacturing job.

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    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    .

    While I certainly DO NOT advocate breaking laws against carrying I feel your post has a Defeatist air about it.

    Several states have passed laws allowing guns in employer parking areas.

    More and more states are enacting "castle laws" or expanding the laws they have to extend Beyond your actual home.

    If we as 2A and cc advocates can educate our lawmakers AND the corporations we interact with daily we will see even more
    loosening of unfair restrictions.

    Rather than quietly accepting our lot we should redouble our efforts,

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    "If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
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    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
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    In Indiana businesses can no longer ban firearms from worker's vehicles parked on property, it cannot be used as an excuse to terminate. We can carry on university propertiey, and we can carry in bars also. The only place I have to worry about is school(K-12) property, and I believe that is Federal law.

    Blood is not running down the streets here.

    Freedom is Fantastic !!
    INccwchris likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanimal View Post
    My biggest problem is college campuses and bars. In Washington state we cannot enter any establishment(or part of) that holds a liquor license. So now I am forced to not go to dinner with friends/classmates/colleagues because I don't have a car to stow my weapon in. If I were to carry on my college campus I would be breaking policy and face expulsion/termination. In the state I am going to school next year I would face criminal charges as well. I am not worried about needing my weapon at school as much as I am during my travels to and from. The school is relatively safe. However, I use public transportation and walk to do all my errands and my commute.

    I am dealing with this in the short term as best I can, school is temporary (hopefully, unless I end up teaching). I don't like the fact that to better my life by going to school I have to put it in more danger than if I sat at home on unemployment, or in my old low wage manufacturing job.
    I am facing a similar situation in NC. I work for a university and you are not even permitted to have it locked in your vehicle. While I don't agree with the no carry on campus policy, I can accept it. The part about not being able to leave it in your vehicle is a problem as it only denies me the ability to have it to and from work, which for me is a considerable distance. In my case, I am considering driving 95% of the way and then using the off-campus park&rides which would then let me take a bus for free to a location near my office. Since the P&R lots are not university property, the carry ban doesn't apply. Of course, I am more concerned about someone breaking into my car there than on campus and even safer would be to have it on me. I just don't understand the reasoning and thinking behind the ban.

    The prohibition on bars and restaurants, is just plain ludicrous, the restaurant portion at least. Most big name restaurants won't come to a town unless they are able to serve alcohol as it is often times a large profit maker. Again, I can accept the don't drink and carry concept, but not being able to eat in an establishment just because someone else is having a beer is stupid.

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    Senior Member Array mastercapt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsrule View Post
    .

    While I certainly DO NOT advocate breaking laws against carrying I feel your post has a Defeatist air about it.

    Several states have passed laws allowing guns in employer parking areas.

    More and more states are enacting "castle laws" or expanding the laws they have to extend Beyond your actual home.

    If we as 2A and cc advocates can educate our lawmakers AND the corporations we interact with daily we will see even more
    loosening of unfair restrictions.

    Rather than quietly accepting our lot we should redouble our efforts,

    Thats the whole point intended. One who complains about the "system" is labeled "rebellious", and for the most part, ignored. However, one who uses the system aginst itself to attain the goal is labeled "smart".
    Educating our politicians, leaders, and management is the way. But, like i said above, some companies are run by a parent company in NY, Mass, Commiefornia, Illinois (Read: chicago), where getting them to change their mind is next to impossible.
    As I said above, maybe it is taken by others as a defeatist attitude, but I don't want to be fired or arrested while "standing up for my 2A rights". I have too many "licenses" which I would loose with even a misnomeanor arrest.
    The NRA or some other nationwide organization should have something like "Armed citizen 101" to give to gov't, and management types, to educate them on the subject.
    Yes, Florida does have the Castle doctrine, and the right to have a gun in your locked car on company property (Much to Disney's dismay) and it is used. Florida ( and its LEO community) are cool with armed citizens
    I do not avocate breaking a law to prove a point. I do avocate getting the "bad" laws changed, thru the proper channels.

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    Member Array Oufan08's Avatar
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    Oklahoma Law

    The Oklahoma Self Defense Act states:

    No employer or private property owner can prevent you from storing a firearm in your car. Also the ghostbusters no gun signs aren't legal in the sense that if your gun is detected they can only ask you to leave and only if you refuse then they can charge you with trespassing and that's all.

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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    We have a member of this board who works in a pizza delivery restaurant. They have a "no firearms" policy. This member elects to carry anyway. Seems like a smart move to me.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    We have a member of this board who works in a pizza delivery restaurant. They have a "no firearms" policy. This member elects to carry anyway. Seems like a smart move to me.
    For all practical purposes, a pizza delivery driver is almost an independent contractor. Usually, you are supplying your own car and your own liability insurance and most people don't choose it as a career path. That's a little different than having a mid-level management position with a Fortune 500 company.

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    Member Array juliandelph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    We have a member of this board who works in a pizza delivery restaurant. They have a "no firearms" policy. This member elects to carry anyway. Seems like a smart move to me.
    Make that two. Pizza Hut doesn't allow weapons of any kind, despite having eliminated the most basic of driver safety programs. Having been robbed and seen the company's unwillingness to protect me, I will gladly risk being fired for exercising my rights. I was lucky to only get a black eye, and I have no desire to rely on that luck again.

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    Member Array Nathanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    The prohibition on bars and restaurants, is just plain ludicrous, the restaurant portion at least. Most big name restaurants won't come to a town unless they are able to serve alcohol as it is often times a large profit maker. Again, I can accept the don't drink and carry concept, but not being able to eat in an establishment just because someone else is having a beer is stupid.
    I am usually able to persuade people to sit in the non-bar area of a restaurant. But there are a few bars around my area that serve really good food/live music. The law is written that I cannot enter the age restricted areas of establishment. So going to a Applebee's type restaurant I could enter, just not enter the "Bar" portion. One bar even becomes age restricted at 9pm. So at 8:55 I bid people farewell, and go somewhere else. The most annoying part is actually the live music scene in Seattle. All the up and coming local bands play in bars or small venues that require a pat down to get into.

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    Again, I can accept the don't drink and carry concept, but not being able to eat in an establishment just because someone else is having a beer is stupid.
    100% agree. Just make it illegal to have alcohol in your bloodstream while carrying a firearm. In WA state truck drivers with CDL's already have a lower allowable BAC content than people with regular drivers licenses. (.04 vs .08) This stands as long as they carry the CDL, no matter what they are driving.

    Do our legislators think that because someone is a federal employee they suddenly have less of a reason to be able to carry to and from work? I know someone who works at a post office. They have to park off property to legally be able to keep their gun in their car. What if he was taking mass transit to work?

    As someone who does not own a car, I think I have more of a problem with these restrictions than most people. I don't have the ability to pop in to a bar and say hi to someone on my way home. I have to plan my trips to the post office with a friend to hold my weapon. We both have a P.O. box so we go every few days and keep each others guns company off federal property.

    Court rooms, jails are the only place that people with a CPL should not be able to carry. Bars, restaurants, schools, universities, post offices, federal agencies; these are all places people have to go to do business on a daily basis. Why should they have to own a car to store their gun in when they want to go there? As more and more humans live in cities, the need and the ability to have a car drops. But the need for self defense does not. The question is how is this going to be balanced.

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastercapt View Post
    Now, we get many posts: " My employer bans guns, what can I do?"
    Kangaroo carry a small little .380 or 9mm under your shirt. If TSHTF then you can still defend yourself. You might get fired, but you will live to find another job. Sorry, but I refuse to give up my rights to protect myself (especially when my job takes me to places like New Orleans) just because some corporate lawyer tells my company that it is a bad idea to "let" me carry. If they don't know and I don't tell them, no harm no foul.
    juliandelph likes this.

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