How do you find an attorney for retainer? - Page 4

How do you find an attorney for retainer?

This is a discussion on How do you find an attorney for retainer? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Mac is correct. I just looked, and since I began assigning sequential numbers to my files in about 1992, I'm up to almost 1300. That ...

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  1. #46
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Mac is correct. I just looked, and since I began assigning sequential numbers to my files in about 1992, I'm up to almost 1300. That doesn't count the numerous files I handled from 1988 to '92, or the multitude I've handled that bear my partners' file numbers. In exactly none of them was I or my firm "on retainer." That's not how retainers work in the three states where I'm licensed, TX, NM and OK. I'm not even sure an attorney in these states can ethically accept a retainer when there is no legal work to be done. Other states, I don't know. The only genuine value in having a specific lawyer tied down before any legal-consequence-causing event would be to prevent a conflict of interest, and when opposing counsel is the DA, that's not likely. By the way, one can get to know a lawyer without paying us anything. While there are comparisons to be made, most of us are not prostitutes.


  2. #47
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 74 View Post
    MadMac-

    I disagree with your assessment. Having a lawyer on retainer holds a lot of value. You've already taken the time to meet with the person, feel comfortable with them, and have agreed that they will represent you. The retainer means you have an agreement for them to represent you, when you need it. I strongly feel that I do NOT want to try to make these arrangements after the fact, or while sitting in a jail cell.

    It's an old, tired analogy bit still valid- you wear seatbelts, correct? You do have fire extinguishers in your house, correct? What are the odds of actually needing either? Small, but if you need them they're lifesavers and can make all the difference.
    Not only is it old and tired, it's wildly inaccurate. The statistical likelihood of needing a simple seatbelt or fire extinguisher is astronomically higher than needing a firearm. I am NOT saying you shouldn't carry, and would never need one, I am simply citing statistics. It's far more likely you'll need a heart defibrillator at home than a gun, yet I'll wager you don't bother to keep one at hand, relying on getting someone to the local hospital where they have one. That's like relying on cop to show up with a gun when you need one. How about lightning protection and flood insurance? Got those?

    Seat belts and fire extinguishers are cheaper to acquire and maintain than a firearm - they require little or no training, and they are almost never abused or misused. I've never heard of a fire extinguisher's ND killing its user or an innocent bystander. Your analogies are fatuous.

    I don't give a crap about having a heart-to-heart with a lawyer and being "comfortable" for $500. Does he/she promise to not die, change jobs, or move away when he accepts your "retainer"? Will he/she be in tip-top shape, and still in-the-know if you ever need him/her? You have no guarantees.

    I want a pit bull of a defense lawyer if I ever need one. One who does the job with razor-sharp professionalism, and knows the local criminal defense system cold. I can always get that guy with money in the highly unlikely event I need him/her.

    If you want to live your life around this one-and-only, minuscule, far-fetched scenario of a threat, that's your choice. Personally, I don't think it's worth the time we've spent discussing is here.

    ...but I'm bored today.
    JohnLeVick and jem102 like this.

  3. #48
    74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    If you want to live your life around this one-and-only, minuscule, far-fetched scenario of a threat, that's your choice. Personally, I don't think it's worth the time we've spent discussing is here.

    ...but I'm bored today.
    You're also a bit over the top.

    Live my life around it? Hardly. I'm comfortable with my arrangement, nothing more. It's nice to have. There aren't too many firms who do criminal defense around where I am, and I think I have the best available.

    So to use your own analogy, why should any of us carry at all if it's such a minuscule, far-fetched possibility of threat?

  4. #49
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    74, I'm curious: Did you pay an attorney a "retainer" to insure that you could hire that attorney if you have to shoot someone, and for no other reason? I.e., has that attorney done no legal work for you yet, despite your having paid the "retainer?" If so, that troubles me. As I mentioned before, I've never heard of that being done, and I'm not sure that it is allowed under the code of ethics. If the money is being held in a trust account, I guess it would be okay, but it is odd.

    I'll not get involved in any dispute here, since I get paid to be involved in disputes, and there is no money in getting into one here, but I would agree that the probability of having to defend oneself is not all that remote. A few years ago, a source I trust stated that we Americans have one chance in five of needing deadly force to defend ourselves during a normal lifetime. Of course, that statistic includes folks who live in a much more dangerous environment than do most of us, and doesn't distinguish between actually shooting and simply ending a threat by the display or threat of deadly force by the intended victim. Also, there's the matter of the three categories of lies: Lies, damn lies, and statistics. However, I'm 56, don't look for trouble or place myself in unnecessarily dangerous environments or situations, and I've been involved in two (arguably three) situations wherein my use of deadly force would have been justified. Luckily, I've never had to shoot anyone, and I sure hope I don't, but the possibility is real enough.

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Ok, so to modify the OP's headline... How do you find a decent attorney to call when you need one? If "retainer" is the wrong term, please forgive it and help us understand the answer to the question the OP should have asked... I don't wanna be sitting in an interrogation room asking for a phone book so I can find a law office in the yellow pages...

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    We've all heard it: "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

    For those who choose to be ignorant of the law, perhaps some sort of legal insurance might help CYA in the event of a shooting, or carrying where you shouldn't, or some other gun related case.

    But, as permitted weapons carriers; it is incumbent on us to know the laws regarding our firearms, their carry and their use.

    Now, that can be a daunting task if we travel extensively to a variety of states on a regular basis, but I would venture guess most of us don't.

    I carry most of the time. But regardless of my sig line, I can't always carry. I don't carry where it will or could be to my detriment to do so. The job, a post office, the neighboring state of Illinois, etc.

    If the day should come when I need to USE my weapon, I am reasonably certain it will be a clear-cut justifiable use, and I will not be charged with any crime.

    If I am, my family attorney, whom I have trusted for years, will be able to recommend a competent attorney to defend me. He won't do it, it's not his area of expertise. But he is a gun owner, and in fact had a FFL business in addition to his law firm for many years.

    You can purchase insurance if you wish. But you are more likely to need a defibrillator, a fire extinguisher, a seatbelt, an oncologist, or a neurologist, than you are to need a lawyer to defend you in a self defense case.

    Your premium would be better spent (as MitchellCT has pointed out many times) in training, force on force, legal ramifications of self defense, etc. Or, you can go back and read In the Gravest Extreme" again, and LEARN everything it says.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Ok, so to modify the OP's headline... How do you find a decent attorney to call when you need one? If "retainer" is the wrong term, please forgive it and help us understand the answer to the question the OP should have asked... I don't wanna be sitting in an interrogation room asking for a phone book so I can find a law office in the yellow pages...
    Now, there's a good question.

    Do you have a will? Who wrote it for you? Ask him. If you don't have a will, but you are willing to carry a gun because it's a dangerous world out there... Go back to step one... get a will. Ask the attorney who writes it for you...
    MadMac likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Now, there's a good question.

    Do you have a will? Who wrote it for you? Ask him. If you don't have a will, but you are willing to carry a gun because it's a dangerous world out there... Go back to step one... get a will. Ask the attorney who writes it for you...
    The only time I've ever spoken to a lawyer face to face was at Sportsman's event. And he was from Montana. I've never set foot in a law office except to work on their router, and only spoke to the receptionist... about her children's sports events, I believe. Wasn't brave enough to ask for her number to take her out. So no, I don't have a lawyer or a will.

  9. #54
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Ok, so to modify the OP's headline... How do you find a decent attorney to call when you need one? If "retainer" is the wrong term, please forgive it and help us understand the answer to the question the OP should have asked... I don't wanna be sitting in an interrogation room asking for a phone book so I can find a law office in the yellow pages...
    I would read the local newspapers and right down the names of an attorney who wins high profile criminal cases. I can name four or five in my area. Look up the phone number of his law firm and program it into your cell phone. You may never need it, but it's there if you do. By the way, I've never seen one of these lawyers advertising for business.

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    I would read the local newspapers and right down the names of an attorney who wins high profile criminal cases. I can name four or five in my area. Look up the phone number of his law firm and program it into your cell phone. You may never need it, but it's there if you do. By the way, I've never seen one of these lawyers advertising for business.
    Good point. Problem is, I live in too small a town for many "high profile" cases.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Good point. Problem is, I live in too small a town for many "high profile" cases.
    Then look for a larger city that's nearest to you. If you have the money to pay them, these people will drive over to see you. Then again, if your town is that small, he may feel the potential jury pool is already tainted from local gossip and ask for a change of venue. That way he doesn't have to commute.

  12. #57
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 74 View Post
    So to use your own analogy, why should any of us carry at all if it's such a minuscule, far-fetched possibility of threat?
    That, my dear friend, is the key question here. Only you can answer that for yourself.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 74 View Post
    ...
    So to use your own analogy, why should any of us carry at all if it's such a minuscule, far-fetched possibility of threat?
    In a major city, if you are white, the odds are 1 in 23,000 that you will be killed by strangulation, stabbing, or firearms. At least according to this thread and related articles: Gunshot demographics

    On the other hand, according to the National safety council, your lifetime odds are 1 in 314 of dying in a firearms assault.

    1. I first acquired a handgun because a long gun was too inconvenient to bring to bear on an intruder in my home (who was tapping me on the shoulder at the time).
    2. I first got a permit to carry a handgun because I worked as a bank courier. (professional permit under Iowa law at the time).
    3. I first got a Personal permit to carry weapons (under Iowa law) because I was working as a strikebreaker and was followed home, and had an attempt made to blow up a vehicle in front of my home by out of town union thugs.
    4. I recently re-acquired a personal permit because a co-worker was stabbed, beaten, and left for dead (by four men who are now serving 15 - 25 years), walking home from our plant (at 2:30 in the morning, in a dilapidated run-down, flooded-out neighborhood).


    During the escapades covered under #3, I learned first hand that the mere display of a weapon can lead to a cessation of hostilities.

    But then, I could just say "Because it is a right. A right guaranteed to us under the constitution. A right not exercised may be lost."

    Carry on, but unless you are not diligent in the proper, legal means of carry and potential use of your weapon, you are highly unlikely to need a defense attorney in the event of your actually unlikely need to use your firearm in a deadly manner.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  14. #59
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    ...and I guarantee you those statistics are HIGHLY skewed. I am not saying they are wrong, but I'll bet they look a lot different if you break them down by demographics.

    I'll wager those statistics look quite different if you're a black male between the ages of 16 and 32 compared to a wealthy, middle--aged Asian woman.

    If you also look at them through a prism of socio-economic status you would get different perspectives as well. For example: a 28 year-old black male without a high school diploma versus a 28 year-old black male with a graduate degree.

    Again, not saying you shouldn't carry or nothing bad ever happens to middled-aged Asian women. Just saying that your best defense against violent assault isn't usually a gun - it's education and a good career.

  15. #60
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Nothing there to disagree with, Mac.

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