Incident at Woodland Hills Mall

This is a discussion on Incident at Woodland Hills Mall within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We were at Woodland Hills Mall and came out to our car to discover we were blocked in by two people getting it on. *After ...

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Thread: Incident at Woodland Hills Mall

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    Member Array Oufan08's Avatar
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    Incident at Woodland Hills Mall

    We were at Woodland Hills Mall and came out to our car to discover we were blocked in by two people getting it on. *After flagging down security who came over and asked her to leave she ended up hitting our car. *Turns out she was drunk. *She hit another car in the process and tried to leave the scene. *A short time later the cops showed up and started questioning us. *I informed the officer questioning me that I was carrying and showed him my license.

    At this point an mall cop and a county sheriff officer started threatening me. *They said that they were going to confiscate my gun and arrest me and press charges for unlawful possession of a firearm. *I was informed by Tulsa County Sheriff Deputy that I'm not allowed to carry on private property. *After a short argument about my rights another cop ended the conversation and said that "we need to focus on the drunk driver."

    A short time later TPD showed up and the sheriff deputy broadcasted we were carrying. *Both of us had already removed our guns from our hips and stowed them in our vehicles. *One of the TPD officers confronted me and said that it's illegal for us to carry on any private property and even having them in our car was prosecutable if Woodland Hills wanted to press charges.

    So this morning I re-read the 37 page Oklahoma Self Defense Act. Nothing in the law backs up what the cops and mall security stated. At most upon the "discovery" of my gun they could ask me to leave and if I refused they could charge me with trespassing, but this idea of confiscating my gun and "wrapping me up" as one Tulsa County sheriff deputy and one of the mall cops put it is absurd. I have the utmost respect for police officers but it seems they need to study the law a little more.

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    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Pure ignorance my friend.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I would suggest you file a complaint with the SO and PD,it seems as if they need to educate their Officers on what the letter of the law states and not what they think it says
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    This happened in Tulsa OK, a very gun-friendly state, home of the worlds largest gun show? Granted I'm sure mis-information can/does happen everywhere.

    As stated above, I suppose the leo's were a bit mixed up about the law. Maybe a "nice letter" to the chief/sheriff explaining your story and experience and tactfully suggesting that they give a little refresher course on OK concealed carry.
    oneshot likes this.
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    I fail to see anything about private property posted here.

    Oklahoma places of off-limits when carrying:
    1. government building;
    2. meeting of any elected or appointed government officials;
    3. prison or detention center; elementary, secondary, or
    4. vocational-technical school property; sports arena during
    5. a professional sporting event; any place where pari-mutuel
    6. wagering is authorized; college or university property and
    7. any other place specifically prohibited by law.

    Except for any elementary, secondary, or vocational-technical school property, these prohibitions do not apply to parking lots.

    Source...http://www.usacarry.com/
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    You might even start with the county attorney or prosecutor's office to get a reading from them, then proceed to have the nice little chat with the TPD chief and Sheriff's office.
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    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Did Gecko45 show up and put everything 5X5?

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    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    You might even start with the county attorney or prosecutor's office to get a reading from them, then proceed to have the nice little chat with the TPD chief and Sheriff's office.
    +1. The county attorney is often the best way to get unknowing deputies educated about the law. I've had to go to the county attorney about shooting on my property and she personally instructed the sheriff to stay out of it as long as we're being safe.

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    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    I've been to that mall several times (Tulsa is not my home town but it is on the way to my parents house). I have ALWAYS carried there, inside and out.
    The officers you ran into are amazing to me, I have NEVER encountered that level of ignorance of the law. Especially as regards parking lots in Oklahoma, the officers were completely off base.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

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    Member Array Oufan08's Avatar
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    That's what I thought. Thanks everyone. One of the mall cops said to me "I was a cop for 14 years and if I ever see you in my mall with a gun I'll confiscate your gun and have you arrested.". At this point I was extremely frustrated and said "Sir I haven't served 10 years in the Army including a year in Afghanistan to have a mall cop violate my 2nd amendment rights and my state approved conceal carried rights.". I don't like to pick fights but this was worth standing up for. However I did stop talking after I made my point so they wouldn't take me to jail.

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    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oufan08 View Post
    That's what I thought. Thanks everyone. One of the mall cops said to me "I was a cop for 14 years and if I ever see you in my mall with a gun I'll confiscate your gun and have you arrested.". At this point I was extremely frustrated and said "Sir I haven't served 10 years in the Army including a year in Afghanistan to have a mall cop violate my 2nd amendment rights and my state approved conceal carried rights.". I don't like to pick fights but this was worth standing up for. However I did stop talking after I made my point so they wouldn't take me to jail.
    Take you to jail? On what charge, "carrying on private property"? Or maybe trespassing? I say bring it! Let's just see where this goes. Likely some crow eating for Tulsa PD!
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

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    Member Array heyrakes's Avatar
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    thank you for your service, Oufan08. i would like to add your 4thA rights either. i am not up on OK. laws, is there a posting requirement there?

    i wonder where these CLEO's got the notion you couldn't carry on private property? Gov. workers tend to be functionally intelligent, most of the time they just have a misinterpretation of a law. but, y'all don't seem to have anything close to that.

    please take the time to educate the dept., so that all the firearm owners are not persecuted like you were

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    Member Array Oufan08's Avatar
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    I'm not sure the mall cops started in with the "you can't carry in my mall". I remember our conceal carry class was taught by a broken arrow police officer and he said even the no gun ghostbuster signs don't carry any legal weight.

    I will take all of your advice and be calling and writing letters. At one point when they county sheriff threaten me with jail, I asked for what? That's when the deputy said "illegally carrying". my response was ok let's go and we'll see have many civil rights attorneys you have breathing down the neck of the sheriffs office. But my girlfriend stepped in and pleading with me so I walked away.

    However, I will not stop carrying. My girlfriend needs to go shopping for work today, and I'll gladly carry on my hip.

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    How were you blocked in by two people getting it on? So...a car was double parked behind you and two people were having sex in it?

    Listen, I realize that having sex in a public area would carry some legal consequences, and if one feels the right to call the authorities, then so be it.

    However, let's just say that you calmly asked the person to move the vehicle, which may have mitigated the collisions due to the fact that the person would not be "running from the authorities." Then you could have driven away without some rent a cop questioning your constitutional rights.

    The points are: 1. Never talk to cops unless completely necessary 2. Handle your own business 3. Mind your own business.

    If I misinterpreted the scenario, then ignore the post, but it's something to think about.
    9MMare and BkCo1 like this.

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    Member Array Oufan08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    How were you blocked in by two people getting it on? So...a car was double parked behind you and two people were having sex in it?

    Listen, I realize that having sex in a public area would carry some legal consequences, and if one feels the right to call the authorities, then so be it.

    However, let's just say that you calmly asked the person to move the vehicle, which may have mitigated the collisions due to the fact that the person would not be "running from the authorities." Then you could have driven away without some rent a cop questioning your constitutional rights.

    The points are: 1. Never talk to cops unless completely necessary 2. Handle your own business 3. Mind your own business.

    If I misinterpreted the scenario, then ignore the post, but it's something to think about.
    They were parked in a way that I could not move my vehicle, I knocked on the car window and asked them to please move, the girl teamed of alcohol and flipped me off, cussed me and went back to doing her business. So I flagged down mall security who asked her to leave. In the process of her leaving she hit our car and then another. Then she tried to run, at that point I merely stood in front of her car and asked her to get out so I could get her information. That and I'm not in good conscience going to allow a drunk driver out on the streets.

    When all the cops started showing up and questioning us and asking for id is when I handed them my DL and CC permit. That's when the fiasco started. I did my part under the law which requires I notify law enforcement in said situation.

    The girl ended up being booked for a DUI. There honestly was no way I could have moved my vehicle without hitting them and when I tried to handle it by politely asking them to move, I got nowhere.

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