The RIGHT sign if a business is uncomfortable for guns

The RIGHT sign if a business is uncomfortable for guns

This is a discussion on The RIGHT sign if a business is uncomfortable for guns within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have been looking at more cases where businesses are putting up signs of "no guns allowed" Since we all know an improper sign (based ...

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Thread: The RIGHT sign if a business is uncomfortable for guns

  1. #1
    Member Array dean1818's Avatar
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    The RIGHT sign if a business is uncomfortable for guns

    I have been looking at more cases where businesses are putting up signs of "no guns allowed"

    Since we all know an improper sign (based on your state) is not legally binding,(AND... TOTALLY without value of protection)

    I reallty think the owners, or managers of these establishments (the ones that think a felon will read and then leave ) should put up the standard "Unlicensed possession of a firearm on the premises is a felony and...blah blah blah..."

    For those that have already decided for the sign protection....... a more correct sign is order...one that covers the legal CCW.

    Some folks think that CCW folks should:

    1) Just eat there anyway
    2) Leave when you see the sign and dont eat there
    3) Tell the manager, or the owner the problem and tell them you cant eat there in the future
    and tell them about the "unlicensed" sign - My recent approach

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    My state has no requirement for any particular signage, and it carries no legal weight regardless for someone with a CWFL unless that place happens to be on the statute list of prohibited places--which makes a sign un-necessary to begin with. If asked to leave, one must--immediately. Refusal, while armed, is felony trespassing.

    While some can disagree, businesses are entities, privately owned, and have all the rights of a homeowner as to who is allowed to enter. Businesses are not a public place. Public places are those belonging to the public, usually govenment owned. Anyone entering a business is an invitee, just as anyone entering one's home is. Likewise, just as a home owner can say yea or neah to firearms, a business can do likewise. The only difference is the invitee in your home consumes your beer; the invitee in the business provides income.

    As a CC'er, whether one choose to enter the home or business that requests no firearms or go elsewhere is up to the individual.
    limatunes and swiftyjuan like this.
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    Unfortunately here in North Carolina there are no standards for signage and signs do carry weight of law, even a gunbuster sign crayoned on a scrap of paper is an acceptable and enforceable sign. Since businesses who post such signs consider myself and other gun owners as undesirable and unwanted I will take my business elsewhere.
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    TN has two signs that can be used--a gun buster or a specifically worded quote from the actual law. Signs have the "weight of law" as a Class B Misnomeaner) with a fine of up to $500 and loss of permit. So far it seems everyone avoids carrying where any sign is posted. Guess nobody has been willing to contest a non-conforming sign in court. Most feel if they express any desire to not have your business, go elsewhere. That's my feeling, too.

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    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean1818 View Post
    I reallty think the owners, or managers of these establishments (the ones that think a felon will read and then leave ) should put up the standard "Unlicensed possession of a firearm on the premises is a felony and...blah blah blah..."
    Yes, that one is the best sign. It works well for all parties involved. It keeps the anti's happy because they think at first glance that it bans all guns and most antis think the only ones licensed are police officers. It keeps the people like us happy, because it doesn't mention us specifically.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Regardless of whether or not you have to obey their sign or choose to obey, my advice is to send a letter, email or have a conversation with a manager about it. It does no good to complain amongst ourselves and if you don't point out the loss to the business nothing will ever change.
    Try not to screw up so bad they name the screw up after you. (Station 15 saying)

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    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    My state has no requirement for any particular signage, and it carries no legal weight regardless for someone with a CWFL unless that place happens to be on the statute list of prohibited places--which makes a sign un-necessary to begin with. If asked to leave, one must--immediately. Refusal, while armed, is felony trespassing.

    While some can disagree, businesses are entities, privately owned, and have all the rights of a homeowner as to who is allowed to enter. Businesses are not a public place. Public places are those belonging to the public, usually govenment owned. Anyone entering a business is an invitee, just as anyone entering one's home is. Likewise, just as a home owner can say yea or neah to firearms, a business can do likewise. The only difference is the invitee in your home consumes your beer; the invitee in the business provides income.

    As a CC'er, whether one choose to enter the home or business that requests no firearms or go elsewhere is up to the individual.
    This!

    While in VA this was common. You would see "no guns allowed signs" on Mall entrances, etc and JD and I would still carry in. We choose to believe that the establishment is talking about UNLAWFUL guns not being allowed.

    Of course if one is asked to leave you must do so or you could be looking at trespassing but that's about the extent of it if there are no legal precedences that back up such signs.

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    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
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    I just ignore the signs. In Minnesota if you enter past a correctly posted sign only the owner or property manager can ask you to leave. If you fail to leave you can be fined $25.00. As such I see no reason to pay much attention to the signs. Excepting schools or government offices of course. Now I live in Wisconsin. Not sure how that will shake out here but given businesses are exempt and ONLY exempt from liability if they allow guns I'm beting there won't be many signs going up here. Course this is Wisconsin so never say never.
    PPKman likes this.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.

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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    Unfortunately here in North Carolina there are no standards for signage and signs do carry weight of law, even a gunbuster sign crayoned on a scrap of paper is an acceptable and enforceable sign. Since businesses who post such signs consider myself and other gun owners as undesirable and unwanted I will take my business elsewhere.
    Same here in Nebraska.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    In Texas it must be a legal sign,the other signs usually state something about the unlawfully concealed guns.If It's a legal sign I don't tell management or owner squat since that would usually require me to go inside which I would have to disarm to do.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    Ex Member Array Snatale42's Avatar
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    Thats why I'm glad I'm in a state where NO SIGN is legally binding

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    Member Array LongGoneDays's Avatar
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    Unfortunately Louisiana is one of the states that any sign at a public place has the weight of law.
    One of the few things we need to change.

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    The last sign I saw around here was a pro carry sign. Not many gun buster signs around here. Some of the major anti gun chains are posted; Toys R us and Babies R us are the main culprits. Nobody else seems to care.

    Then there is the state forcing us not to carry where alcohol is served. Makes you wonder how "private" your property is when the state makes the decision for you.

    To answer your question, I'd tell the manager on duty why I was leaving and contact the company vie phone, email, etc. I'm not spending my money somewhere if they are willing to not respect my right to carry. I'll occasionally let the restaurants slide since the state is making the decision for them. But generally I eat places that don't serve alcohol.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Here in WA a posting or sign carries no weight. Most malls post, but it's on their "rules" sign, obscure, hidden, small fonts, and I presume only for insurance purposes.

    I did notice that the Westlake Center downtown Seattle that it specifically says "No firearms, even if legally carried, except by law enforcement" or something like that. I was going to go back and get a picture of it but forgot.

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