Mall Confusion

This is a discussion on Mall Confusion within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just don't go there. Don't open up any more of a can of worms....

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Thread: Mall Confusion

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Just don't go there. Don't open up any more of a can of worms.
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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    Why would you say anything? You aren't breaking the law by entering at an entrance that is not posted. If you tell them that their signs are not correct, then you aren't doing anyone a favor. Let a sleeping dog lie and never interrupt your enemy while he's making a mistake.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Take the other sign down, problem solved. Just Kidding!! Well, if it were me, I wouldn't go there even if I thought that they were contemplating putting up "the sign." They've already proven that they have no regard for my life, just my money. Why give a place money that doesn't appear to have any common sense anyway? Gets me thinking, I wonder if they get some sort of insurance break if they post 30.06?
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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbilly32 View Post
    Longview, TX
    That's good.. Because I've been in nearly every Mall in the Dallas/Fort-Worth area and never seen a 30.06 sign on any Mall. I've been to some in Austin and Houston too and never seen a sign. If it were any of the ones in this area I'd be making some phone calls and sending some letters.
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  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Question I have. The main Mall entrance is posted, store entrance is not, does the Mall sign control the space rented by the stores or just the parts not rented? If he or anyone else enters the store that is not posted and never leaves that store space are you legal?

    I know big can of worms. Ask 5 lawyers and get 5 different answers. Only one that matters is the Judges that is hearing your case after you get caught.
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  7. #21
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    Question I have. The main Mall entrance is posted, store entrance is not, does the Mall sign control the space rented by the stores or just the parts not rented? If he or anyone else enters the store that is not posted and never leaves that store space are you legal?

    I know big can of worms. Ask 5 lawyers and get 5 different answers. Only one that matters is the Judges that is hearing your case after you get caught.
    there really is no confusion because the law in TX says that for the 30.06 signs to be lawful they MUST be posted at EVERY entrance. so if there is an entrance from a macy's that entrance has to be signed for all the other signs to be valid.
    As the OP noted in the mall he was at the entrance he used was not properly posted. I noted that while he is correct and would probably beat any attempts at prosecution he would be putting himself at the mercy of the courts and regardless of what the law says, anything can happen once you get into the courtroom.
    Ask that guy from NJ who spent months in jail because the judge was a whack job and wrongly refused to let the actual law in NJ be introduced as evidence, the governor had to commute his sentence, but he still spent months in prison.
    word to the wise, don't be cute and try to be a test case, it could go very wrong.
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  8. #22
    Member Array 3dfxMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    there really is no confusion because the law in TX says that for the 30.06 signs to be lawful they MUST be posted at EVERY entrance. so if there is an entrance from a macy's that entrance has to be signed for all the other signs to be valid.
    As the OP noted in the mall he was at the entrance he used was not properly posted. I noted that while he is correct and would probably beat any attempts at prosecution he would be putting himself at the mercy of the courts and regardless of what the law says, anything can happen once you get into the courtroom.
    Ask that guy from NJ who spent months in jail because the judge was a whack job and wrongly refused to let the actual law in NJ be introduced as evidence, the governor had to commute his sentence, but he still spent months in prison.
    word to the wise, don't be cute and try to be a test case, it could go very wrong.
    The law does NOT say that the signs must be posted at every entrance. It doesn't even say the signs have to be at entrances. They just have to be " displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public". If you are aware that the mall has some entrances posted you are still illegal even if you enter through a door that is not posted.

  9. #23
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    Well since you now know the mall is posted, it now becomes a matter of integrity. You either a) avoid going there while carrying, or b) break the law and carry even though you know it's posted.

    My choice would be "a". When you sign for your permit, you are in essence agreeing to obey all laws pertaining to it, not just the ones you agree with.

    As to saying anything to mall management, I wouldn't. It is their responsibility to ensure they are properly posted. If someone enters through an entrance that is not properly posted, while the mall may call the police, the fact that they have entrances not posted makes it their mistake, not the carriers.
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  10. #24
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    Here in FL there are very few signs because they mean nothing.

    Now with your situation in TX, I would simple remain quiet and be sure to use the non-posted entrance.OMOYMV

    Obviously your concern was not in this TX store...‪Shopping in Texas?‬‏ - YouTube
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  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Hi. Welcome to the DC Forum ;-)

    If you do decide to notify the mall, don't admit that you have carried there before. They probably can't do anything about it since its after the fact but just to keep things simple, I wouldn't "give" this piece of information.

    I'm sure you probably wouldn't do this but what I'm mostly trying to convey to you is for you to be careful about your words. By law, you don't have to say anything that will incriminate yourself.

    Take care,

  12. #26
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dfxMM View Post
    The law does NOT say that the signs must be posted at every entrance. It doesn't even say the signs have to be at entrances. They just have to be " displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public". If you are aware that the mall has some entrances posted you are still illegal even if you enter through a door that is not posted.
    not wanting to beat this dead horse but if an entrance is not signed then a person walking in via that entrance has not been notified that the property owner wants to restrict his property as per 30.06, so if every entrance is not signed it can't be easily enforced and someone would have a valid defense for violation of the 30.06 restriction.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    You can buy what you need on the internet or other places. Mall's are full of BG's anyway looking for unwary people to prey on, and now, they know most will be unarmed. The mall and anyone who posts these type signs are morons of the first order. It pisses me off so bad I can't stand it.

    Will a criminal look at the sign and give up? Will a law abiding citizen be forced to shop elsewhere? It's lose lose.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array Skeeter64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    That's good.. Because I've been in nearly every Mall in the Dallas/Fort-Worth area and never seen a 30.06 sign on any Mall. I've been to some in Austin and Houston too and never seen a sign. If it were any of the ones in this area I'd be making some phone calls and sending some letters.
    Have you been to Grapevine Mills? The mall entrances are posted, but I think the verbiage is not up to date. I have read here on DC that the cops in Grapevine are not the most pleasant to deal with.

    Update: I took a picture of the 30.06 sign at Grapevine Mills and checked it against the correct verbiage. The sign is way off and not legal.
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  15. #29
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    I may be wrong here, however...... If a company rents that space from a mall that makes them the legal custodian for that property. IE. I rent a apatment in a complex of many, however i make the rules on what goes on in the space i occupy. I think that this is the same with the buisness. The common area that the mall controls is a no go, however the stores do not have such a policy. I dont like malls, avoid them like the plage. However sometimes its a necessary evil. I pull up close as i can to the entrance to the store i want to shop, go in, get my stuff, pay and leave in a timely manner, all while armed. I know some buisness owners that rent a space in a miny mall, kinda the same Idea, they make the rules in there space. This could be why there are signs posted on some entrances and not on the ones to the department stores. Just dont go out of the department store to the food court and it seems you're legal. Just my couple cents. If all else fails, carry a knife and a flashlight , blind them with the light, stab them in the eye, and run like hell for your gun.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    You said the sign has the correct verbiage but is it a legal 30-06 sign as described in the Code?

    (A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
    (B) a sign posted on the property that:
    (i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
    (ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height;
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