New member here and first time poster. I'm wondering what I should do if anything. Went to the local mall this past weekend and noticed something for the first time. One of the entrances to the mall had a sign posted with the correct verbiage (in Texas) to keep out concealed weapons, even if licensed to carry (Texas P.C. 30-06). I've not seen that before since I always entered the mall through one of the major department stores where no such sign exists. Being curious, I went to my usual entrance to see if a sign was posted thinking it could be new but no sign was there. I then went through the department store into the mall and still did not see a sign prohibiting the carrying of concealed handguns. I've carried in that mall many times without knowing it was prohibited because sign placement was not consistent.
Wondering should I inform mall management so that some other unsuspecting brother doesn't get jacked up because he didn't know either, should I try to persuade them to change the rules to allow their patrons the ability to defend themselves if necessary or should I leave well enough alone and do nothing?
I'm interested in what you all have to say. Thanks.
The mall is essentially private property and 'they' can make the rules.
I 'believe' (haven't looked it up yet) that the sign doesn't hold any weight unless your asked to leave the property because your concealed handgun was inadvertently 'discovered'.
A letter/call/email 'might' be good, but ultimately I believe it'd fall 'on deaf ears'.
If it makes them and others 'feel' safe, the sign'll stay. JMO.
I don't know the laws about how the signs are supposed to be posted in Texas, but if the door I entered is not posted I'm going in! You say you have carried there numerous times without incident so I wouldn't say a word to management or you may be opening a HUGE can or worms. Don't rock the boat and carry on. Just my .02. Welcome from 10AC :wave:
Which mall is this?
Originally Posted by Cowbilly32
In Texas the proper sign must be placed at all entrances. If there is a door that doesn't have one, use that door. If you are confronted adn it gets ugly simply indicate you didn't see any proper postings in the entrance you entered through.
You'll have to then make the choice to leave and not risk any issue or disarm and enter. Which mall is this?
In texas the correct 30.06 sign carries full weight with or without disclosure. If you carry past the sign you can be convicted of criminal trespass. I would ovoid the place personally but if you must give the mall your patronage I wouldn't carry. You know of the sign and it is now documented on the interweb.
You are GRAVELY mistaken. In Texas, there most certainly is a LEGAL sign...the ubiquitous 30.06 sign... If it's properly posted, you can NOT legally carry there.
Originally Posted by goldshellback
you could face arrest since some of the entrances are posted, however you would probably be able to beat the charges if it ever got that far. the question facing you is do you want to tempt fate and play around with the law and it's nuances? I wouldn't want to test some judges interpretation of the law.
the bottom line is that if the mall doesn't want your gun there, that means they don't want your business, I would find other places to shop where your gun and money is welcome
Probably a Simon property, they've tried that "stuff" around here. However, in Indiana signs carry no weight you just have to leave if asked or then you will be guilty of trespass.
Originally Posted by adric22
MHunter is correct. Here is the actual law:
Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035."
Basically, you have now documented that you have seen the sign. So you can no longer go through the department store entrance and claim you didn't know. (Well, you could but the prosecution might dig up this post.)
My experience is that companies that post, are generally instructed to do so by a parent company or corporate HQ and so you contacting them will most likely do very very little. I am currently in contact with a local Hotel that is posted and I am trying to get them to take the signs down....Not gonna happen from what I can tell.
If possible, I would not use this mall anymore. If you must. I would disarm. It just depends on what you want to fight.
On the other hand, Welcome to the forum! You will find lots of interesting thing on here. Good luck!
For the record, I have no intention to enter while armed since I now know about the sign. In fact, I have gone there twice now and have left it behind each time. I don't want trouble and was just wanting to know if I should point out the discrepancy to the mall management to protect some other fellow ccw'er or persuade them to remove the sign which I agree would be a difficult task.
Thanks for the welcome guys!
I say give it a shot. I see it going one of two ways. 1) You'll get them to post all entrances properly, therefore helping avoid confusion for others. 2) You'll let them know that the law abiding citizens who carry are 99% all good people and not to be feared.
Originally Posted by Cowbilly32
I don't know if there is actual case law on the issue ( I would bet there is) but in my CHL class they stated for the 30.06 signs to be enforceable they must be at every entrance. The OP knows that at least at the time he saw the sign that was the policy of the mall. Policies change.
Katy Mills Mall had signs up at one time. I rarely go there, and when I do it is usually limited to Bass Pro. Bass Pro is not posted. There is no sign at the entrance to the mall from Bass Pro. Do they still have those signs posted? I have no idea. Do I have any reason to go out of my way to look for a sign? No. Do I spend my money elsewhere as a result of seeing a sign years ago? Yes.
When you notify them of their faux pas (the missing signage), I would also inform them that you regret that as a result of the signs, you must take your business elsewhere...
I do a lot more shopping on the interwebby thing, nowadays. Often there is no sales tax (that's changing), frequently no shipping charge, and more often than not, I can beat local pricing.
Oh, and I don't have to worry about 30.06 signs in Texas or other states where signage is binding law, so I can sit here strapped if I wanna.