Carry in Federal Reserve Banks

Carry in Federal Reserve Banks

This is a discussion on Carry in Federal Reserve Banks within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I keep reading on this site that: 1. The Fed is owned by the Federal Government. 2. It is illegal to carry on Federal Reserve ...

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Thread: Carry in Federal Reserve Banks

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Carry in Federal Reserve Banks

    I keep reading on this site that:

    1. The Fed is owned by the Federal Government.
    2. It is illegal to carry on Federal Reserve property.
    3. It is illegal to carry on any government property.

    Can anyone support these assertions with a factual reference?

    My understanding is that the Fed is privately owned but the board of directors is appointed by the federal government. That means it is the bank's decision and not a federal law that determines carry on their private property. What am I missing?


  2. #2
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    I have to go into the Federal Reserve Bank in Richmond, Va. IT IS GOVERNMENT PROPERTY & IT IS ILLEGAL TO CARRY A FIREARM THERE!

    One thing that puzzles me is....Why anybody even worries about carrying in the Fed. They do NOT have personal banking customers. You can not go there & open a checking account. Their banking is done with other banks, not individuals. They supply cash to banks, so they have vaults & HEAVILY ARMED GUARDS!

    So to everybody that worries about carrying in a Federal Reserve Bank....QUIT WORRYING, YOU WON'T BE GOING IN WITHOUT HAVING BUSINESS UNRELATED TO BANKING!

    The Federal Reserve is independent within government in that "its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government." However, its authority is derived from the U.S. Congress and is subject to congressional oversight. Additionally, the members of the Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by Congress. The government also exercises some control over the Federal Reserve by appointing and setting the salaries of the system's highest-level employees. Thus the Federal Reserve has both private and public aspects. The U.S. Government receives all of the system's annual profits, after a statutory dividend of 6% on member banks' capital investment is paid, and an account surplus is maintained. In 2010, the Federal Reserve made a profit of $82 billion and transferred $79 billion to the U.S. Treasury.....]
    sixsccw, tubadude, Bark'n and 2 others like this.
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Yeah, a lot of ppl confuse National Banks* with the Federal Reserve bank. Two different animals.

    *National bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It's perfectly legal (federally) to carry in any National or State bank. Your state and your bank get to decide whether you can carry in your bank.

  4. #4
    Member Array remington79's Avatar
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    The Federal Reserve is a private bank and is not owned by the government.
    RemMod597 likes this.

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    I have a close friend who was a guard at the Federal Reserve Bank in Kansas City.

    I'm not sure about the legal definition of the Federal Reserve. I know it has kind of a unique relationship with the government. The board of directors with the Fed is a group of private citizens appointed to their positions. ie, Alan Greenspan (former chairman of the board), Ben Bernanke (current chairman of the board).

    But the following is true regarding the physical structure (building) of the Reserve Banks.

    1) The guards are uniformed U.S. Federal Law Enforcement Officers (similar to the U.S. Park Police).
    2) The Federal Reserve Bank buildings are U.S. Government Property and carrying a gun inside is a felony under U.S. Code.
    3) goawayfarm is correct, they have no private accounts with citizens, nor do they do business with private citizens. They deal strictly with bank-to-bank customers, securities exchanges, other U.S. Government agencies and foreign banks and governments.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    I have to go into the Federal Reserve Bank in Richmond, Va. IT IS GOVERNMENT PROPERTY & IT IS ILLEGAL TO CARRY A FIREARM THERE!

    One thing that puzzles me is....Why anybody even worries about carrying in the Fed. They do NOT have personal banking customers. You can not go there & open a checking account. Their banking is done with other banks, not individuals. They supply cash to banks, so they have vaults & HEAVILY ARMED GUARDS!

    So to everybody that worries about carrying in a Federal Reserve Bank....QUIT WORRYING, YOU WON'T BE GOING IN WITHOUT HAVING BUSINESS UNRELATED TO BANKING!
    Its not about carry or not carry; its about do we know, Or do we only think we know.
    So, how do you know that it's Federal property; is it posted? Is there a sign that says no guns allowed? What makes it illegal; private property rights, or some federal law? I'm trying to get actual references, not just someones opinion. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I want more info.

  7. #7
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    They have the same signs posted as U.S. Post Offices.

    U.S. Property, No weapons on this premises, etc, etc. Sorry I don't have a picture for you.

    In fact, it is very similar to the Post Office in that it is an independent system, considered to be within the Federal Government. The federal government does maintain certain controls over the Federal Reserve.

    Next time I'm in front of the one in Kansas City or St. Louis I'll try and remember to take a photo.

    But don't take our word for it. Pay a visit to your regional Federal Reserve Bank and then come back and post about your experience.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Bark'n,

    Sorry, i was typing while you were posting apparently.

    "...1) The guards are uniformed U.S. Federal Law Enforcement Officers (similar to the U.S. Park Police).
    2) The Federal Reserve Bank buildings are U.S. Government Property and carrying a gun inside is a felony under U.S. Code...."

    OK. Does anyone know the appropriate code we're talking about here? I haven't yet been able to find it-it may take awhile-still looking.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Whether you find the proper law or not, you'd best not even try to carry in a Federal Bank!

    If you're trying to make some 2nd Amendment argument get over it, you're never going to carry in a federal bank unless you become a guard.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

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  10. #10
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Like some weird Twilight Zone episode.


    18 U.S.C. § 930 : US Code - Section 930: Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

    In part:

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
    possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous
    weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),
    or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
    not more than 1 year, or both.
    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon
    be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes
    to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal
    facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or
    imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
    (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of
    subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal
    facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon,
    or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as
    provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,
    agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political
    subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or
    supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or
    prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a
    Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such
    possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
    in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful
    purposes.
    and

    (g) As used in this section:
    (1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part
    thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
    employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing
    their official duties
    All of the Reserve Banks that allow tours also require that you pass through their security check point. They will not let you in with a firearm.
    Last edited by bbqgrill; August 7th, 2011 at 12:10 AM.
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  11. #11
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    You might try 18 USC 930; or 39 USC 410 and 39 CFR

    I haven't looked those up, because personally, I'm not that interested or concerned. It was just recommended to look there for answers in another forum regarding this issue.


    BTW... what is your interest in the matter? Are you merely curious, or do you have a specific reason for needing to know the particulars?
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    OK, so the privately owned bank sits on (or in) federal property. That's interesting.

    No, I'm not trying to make some 2nd amendment argument for carry in the Fed. I'm just trying to nail down the facts. This is the Internet after all. There's a difference in "I was there and I saw the sign that said..." vs "I've always heard", or so-and-so says..."

    I will probably be the last one to knowingly violate a federal law, and yes, sometimes real life is like an episode of Twilight Zone.
    Thanks for the input.

  13. #13
    Member Array Kahnkem's Avatar
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    I can't speak for all the US Federal Reserve banks but I know for sure that the Minneapolis Minnesota Fed is privately owned, but employs Federal Police to guard it. I know that you can not carry in it unless permitted for your job. You shouldn't have business with it unless you are a contractor.

    Matthew
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  14. #14
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    Thought you might find this interesting. Not exactly answers your question regarding private citizens carrying a gun inside a Fed Reserve Bank, but may give you some insight. Again, are you doing a term paper or something, or do you have a specific need to know this.
    Unless you have a real need to know, you can do your own research.

    From Wikipedia

    Federal Reserve Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The U.S. Federal Reserve Police is the law enforcement arm of the Federal Reserve System, the central banking system of the United States.

    History

    The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System derives the authority to authorize "personnel as Federal Law Enforcement Officers to protect and safeguard the premises, grounds, property, personnel, including members of the Board, or any Federal Reserve Bank, and operations conducted by or on behalf of the Board or a reserve bank" from Section 11(q) of the Federal Reserve Act, codified at 12 U.S.C. § 248(q). Prior to designation as Federal Law Enforcement Officers, system protection personnel operated as security or special police officers in their respective states and were almost exclusively regulated to exercising authority on Federal Reserve Property. Following the passage of updated legislation by Congress after 9/11 that designated Federal Law Enforcement Authority to system officers, authority now extends to wherever a Federal Reserve Law Enforcement Officer is performing official duties.

    To be a Federal Reserve Law Enforcement Officer one must attend a district Federal Reserve Police Academy and be sworn in as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer. Federal Reserve Police Training Centers are nationally accredited by the Federal Law Enforcement Training Accreditation (FLETA) program. Additionally, all Federal Reserve Police Instructors are FLETC or POST certified. The Federal Reserve System runs four system-level FLETC-accredited training academies. The locations are San Francisco, CA, New York, NY, Atlanta, GA and Richmond, VA. In some districts, where officers are cross-designated as local–state law enforcement officers, additional training is provided to comply with the governing POST where the district or office is located. Some (but not all) districts offer a lateral entry program that allows for certification with minimal training for those with prior police training and experience.

    Each Federal Reserve Police office in the 12 regional districts are independent law enforcement units though governed loosely out of Washington. Many of the law enforcement units have dual City or State Police authority, in addition to their Federal authority. This separate authority allows for the enforcement of state and/or city laws on or off property.

    Some Federal Reserve law enforcement units have dignitary protection teams, which protect many of the 12 Federal Reserve Presidents. There are five Special Response Teams (SRT) that are based in San Francisco, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Richmond (Virginia) and New York City. Explosive Detection Canine and Hazmat teams are assigned to several Federal Reserve facilities throughout the nation.

    The primary duty of a Federal Reserve Law Enforcement Officer is to provide force protection to Federal Reserve facilities. Officers also respond to police, fire and medical incidents in and near facilities. Each office operates a dispatch and emergency control center where response is coordinated with local authorities.
    Federal Reserve Police car in St. Louis

    Officers are certified to carry semi-automatic pistols, assault rifles, submachine guns, shotguns, less-lethal weapons, pepper spray, batons and other standard police equipment, including bullet resistance vests/body armor. Federal Reserve Police Officers have the same police authority as other uniformed Federal Law Enforcement Officers.

    Because the Federal Reserve System is independent of the Federal Government, system law enforcement officers have a pension and benefit system separate from, but similar to federal employees. Each of the 12 districts has different pay scales based on the local cost of living index.

    On October 12, 2010 President Barack Obama signed into law S.B. 1132 the "Law Enforcement Officers' Safety Act Improvements Act", which states that police officers and law enforcement officers of the Federal Reserve are "qualified law enforcement officers" and thus are authorized to carry a firearm off-duty. This update to the Law Enforcement Safety Act, among other aspects, clarified that Federal Law Enforcement Officers working for Amtrak and the Federal Reserve (not funded by Congress) are specifically granted the same rights as publicly funded law enforcement officers as it relates to off duty concealed carry.
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    OK, so the privately owned bank sits on (or in) federal property. That's interesting.

    No, I'm not trying to make some 2nd amendment argument for carry in the Fed. I'm just trying to nail down the facts. This is the Internet after all. There's a difference in "I was there and I saw the sign that said..." vs "I've always heard", or so-and-so says..."

    I will probably be the last one to knowingly violate a federal law, and yes, sometimes real life is like an episode of Twilight Zone.
    Thanks for the input.
    I told you, I was there, I saw the sign (it's the same type of sign posted at Post Offices), My friend was a Federal LEO, at the Federal Reserve Bank, Kansas City before he quit to go to Iraq.

    But then again, this is the internet, so feel free not to believe me. I'm certainly not going to do anymore research for your entertainment. Look it up yourself. I'm going to be in KCMO next week and was half tempted to swing by and take some photo's of the signs posted, but now, I'll let you figure it out.

    Again, I have no reason to want to carry a gun into a Federal Reserve Bank because I have no business inside one.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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