Armed citizen intervention

This is a discussion on Armed citizen intervention within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by HotGuns We do not know the background of the citizen involved. Critizing him for carry cuffs, rather than applauding the success of ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    We do not know the background of the citizen involved.

    Critizing him for carry cuffs, rather than applauding the success of his effort, seems to be pretty ridiculous to me.
    The article I read said specifically that he was not law enforcemnet nor a security officer.

    I can applaud the outcome, but the "boy-scout preparedness" of carrying hancuffs just screams to me of dangerous delusion.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    When I was finished reading this story, the first thing that came to mind was someone undercover or a person who didn't want to be identified.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    A permit is not needed to do the right thing.
    A permit is not needed to detain someone that has committed a felony.

    Saying that LEO's assume anything is to assume way to much.

    Much about this whole story is assumed.

    We do not know the background of the citizen involved.

    Critizing him for carry cuffs, rather than applauding the success of his effort, seems to be pretty ridiculous to me.
    I, also, find the assumptions being made based upon no evidence whatsoever distasteful.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Cuffs? Perhaps going on a hot date? I don't know.
    I was thinking the same thing.
    Was it "gay pride week"? I'm just sayin'

  6. #20
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    The article I read said specifically that he was not law enforcemnet nor a security officer.
    He may not have been at that time. He might have been once.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    First..I'm happy that things worked out in a postive manner for the Armed Citizen that intervened.

    Now, to give feedback as the OP requested...If I am within distance to observe a gunfight going down, in a questionable area of town, then I have probably violated the rule of "not going stupid places"...IF, I happened to be in that part of town due to a job requirement, or a personal necessity, and observed the gunfight going down, then my first inclination is self preservation. I will seek COVER first, access my weapon, be a good observer, and call 911. I have no idea as to whether there is a "good guy" vs "bad guy" scenario going down, or a "bad guy" vs "bad guy" scenario going down. IF I were to intervene, ANOTHER REMOTE POSSIBLITY WOULD BE, an "undercover" vs a "bad guy" and unknown to me is which one is which. As for the Armed Citizen having cuffs and restraining one of the shooters, there obviously are questions which arise and no clear answers to those questions at this time. I have assumed and trained for the responsibility to defend myself and my loved ones and "perhaps" those known good folks that have been drawn into a situation through no fault of their own, at which point I would intervene on their behalf. Given the information in the article, there are toooooo many unknowns for me to make an intervention...TAKE COVER, OBSERVE, PREPARE TO DEFEND MYSELF, CALL 911...jmo
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    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Yep, we don't have enough info to know or even guess whether or not the concealed carrier was justified. We can't tell from the story if their are any innocents involved here. Our concealed carrier however may have seen something that clarified that for him. If this were the case I can only assume the police are aware of it & withholding that information from the press so as not to taint a jury pool. Personally, unless I knew for sure that there was an innocent involved, I wouldn't get involved if I could help it.

    As far as the cuffs go, if he had to draw his weapon i can see where he might want to restrain also. It does, however require some training & even with it we would be better off holding the perp at gunpoint until LEOs arrive. I can just see the perp suing me later for hurting him unnecessarily. That however has its own risks for which we all need to be prepared. Risks either way. I think I would prefer to take my risks with the trained LEOs.

  9. #23
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    Glad everything turned out like it did and 2 badguys off the street.
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  10. #24
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    Thanks everybody for responding. I'll update soon as I get new information.

  11. #25
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    Here's an update. Not many surprises here

    Skyway shooting update: Victim has record, citizen fired once, suspect used .22

    The 53-year-old victim in Saturday night’s high-profile Skyway shooting incident in which an armed citizen intervened and took down the suspect has a criminal record that includes residential burglary and malicious mischief, but the suspected gunman had no booking record at the King County Jail, until now.


    Skyway shooting update: Victim has record, citizen fired once, suspect used .22 - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Still sounds like a mess.
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  13. #27
    Member Array LSCurrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
    I'd like to know why the guy was carrying handcuffs? Maybe looking for trouble and wanting to play cop?
    Could it be that it is legal to carry handcuffs in his state? If so, just like carrying any other tool - such as: flashlight, knife, etc...

    Some people like to be prepared for a variety of circumstances.

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  14. #28
    New Member Array Ammendment2's Avatar
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    Cuffs Worse Than a Gun? Seriously?

    I find it very telling regarding today's society that more people posting here are concerned about the citizen carrying handcuffs than a firearm. Really? You'd be worried about the perp claiming you hurt him with cuffs, but it's okay to sit there with a gun pointed at him? Never mind the fact that it's much safer and a MUCH better idea to have the perp sitting there in cuffs and your gun put away when the cops arrive than to be the one pointing a weapon at someone when they get there. Does anyone here REALLY believe that cuffs have the potential to cause more damage than a gun? Forgive me for saying so, but that seems like an incredibly ignorant opinion.

    Of course, at the same time, I DO agree with the idea that you should be trained to use any defensive tool you carry. Someone carrying and using a tool (gun, cuffs, collapsible baton, etc) they aren't trained to use is a recipe for disaster. I also think that anyone carrying a firearm needs to not only be trained in how to use it, but in the ramifications (local legality, constitutional law regarding firearm use, etc) of using it. How many people are carrying right now that actually fully understand that THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY ROUND THAT LEAVES THEIR FIREARM? If this guy had hit an innocent bystander with that shot he fired, even though the use of deadly force was authorized, he would have found himself in VERY big trouble, indeed.

  15. #29
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    I don't know about yall but, I do not carry cuffs with me. I'm not a cop. No need to carry cuffs.
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  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ammendment2 View Post
    I find it very telling regarding today's society that more people posting here are concerned about the citizen carrying handcuffs than a firearm. Really? You'd be worried about the perp claiming you hurt him with cuffs, but it's okay to sit there with a gun pointed at him? Never mind the fact that it's much safer and a MUCH better idea to have the perp sitting there in cuffs and your gun put away when the cops arrive than to be the one pointing a weapon at someone when they get there. Does anyone here REALLY believe that cuffs have the potential to cause more damage than a gun? Forgive me for saying so, but that seems like an incredibly ignorant opinion.

    Of course, at the same time, I DO agree with the idea that you should be trained to use any defensive tool you carry. Someone carrying and using a tool (gun, cuffs, collapsible baton, etc) they aren't trained to use is a recipe for disaster. I also think that anyone carrying a firearm needs to not only be trained in how to use it, but in the ramifications (local legality, constitutional law regarding firearm use, etc) of using it. How many people are carrying right now that actually fully understand that THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY ROUND THAT LEAVES THEIR FIREARM? If this guy had hit an innocent bystander with that shot he fired, even though the use of deadly force was authorized, he would have found himself in VERY big trouble, indeed.
    Let me put it this way, I roll up on scene with other full LEO's and you have the BG cuffed and stuffed sitting on the ground, I'm gonna ask for your badge and identification, no badge and ID, I or my partners then inform you that your under arrest for felony impersonation of a police officer, criminal confinement, and battery and now have the right to remain silent. Its legal to walk around in public with a speedo and a gunbelt on, that dosen't mean its a good idea or won't get you a charge based on the action. No handcuffs in and of themselves are not illegal, using them to confine a criminal without law enforcement power is. And the fact you are saying its an ignorant opinion when I bet you aren't certified to carry or use handcuffs. There are things you gotta do and its easier to get caught up in a lawsuit than it is to get out of a self defense situation. You don't have a badge that means something to go with that gun, don't carry handcuffs
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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