Can I carry too much? - Page 3

Can I carry too much?

This is a discussion on Can I carry too much? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ExSoldier For a police officer and that worked real well on Rodney King didn't it? My Aikido sensei begs to differ and ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    For a police officer and that worked real well on Rodney King didn't it? My Aikido sensei begs to differ and my experiences backs that up for me. YMMV, however. The baton is a simple control mechanism and when properly applied offers rare opportunity for lethal consequences. However, accidents do happen this is why one needs to train.
    Everybody is a sensei, and I wasn't there for Rodney King, but I do know the PPCT traing for the baton. I would like to see one be effectively used in a crowded room full of drunks who would percieve the swing and strike of one of their own as a " beat down". How long do you think you would last in that mob?

    In a potentially volatile enviroment like that, one has to be very cautious and aware of the potential to ignite the crowd.
    Last edited by glockman10mm; August 12th, 2011 at 09:41 AM.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.


  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array hardluk1's Avatar
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    Does anyone think this tread is for real??????

  3. #33
    Ex Member Array Bombsaway's Avatar
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    Carry in a manner that YOU are comfortable with.

    I tend to ignore people who say that I'm paranoid. It just tells me that I'm more prepared than they are.
    zonker1986 likes this.

  4. #34
    Member Array ampinf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    It's not what you carry, it's how you plan on using it.
    First and for most I would not intentionally put myself in a job where everyone is getting drunk as hell. That's a recipe for disaster, borderlining on, well, not to smart.

    There is a damn good reason most LE agencies have a strict policy against moonlighting in clubs or bars.
    You really need to think this out better, or have one hell of a liability insurance policy, and legal fund, which I'm betting you don't , or you wouldn't be bouncing.

    I'm 23 just out of college, I apply for, on average, two jobs a day. Bouncing is almost literally the only job I could get, I worked in a liquor store post college too (much more dangerous). Everything I do in self defense is as a private citizen as the company won't take the liability of calling us security. Everything I carry is for self defense, not protecting the clubs interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdog44 View Post
    Heck, if I had all of that on me my pants would be on the floor. Must weigh a ton...
    I carry the gun/s on a belt inside my pants instead of on my pants. Everything else is pretty light.

    Quote Originally Posted by TerriLi View Post
    Eh, the only thing I would do different...and I realize I have carried almost everything you have is drop one of the knives and OC spray. The gloves and note pad for your job are great additions, I will add only one thing CPR/First Aid training and a high quality CPR mask. Not all emergencies require force.

    Oh yeah since you say the Baton is problematic legally I wouldn't even take it to work, it could just be a nightmare legally.

    I have CPR and First Aid Training from a previous job. The baton is legal to have in my car but not on my person.

    Quote Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
    canav844 Thats about as clear cut as info can be and covers all points more than well.

    Some treads like these leave me feeling that it could be from some 14year old with visions of solder of furtune or someone with possible psychotic issues.
    I'm 23, have know idea what Soldier of Fortune is though I think I've spelled in correct. And yes I have the same possibility of psychotic issues as you do, but my probability is low, then again this is about the time they start developing in males, check back in ten years.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    If you were truly "obsessed with security" (as you stated), you'd take a different job, and then you'd look to get an education to get a good career. You're statistically more likely to live to a ripe old age as an accountant, plumber, or insurance agent.

    Bouncer? Not so much.
    I have an education a bachelors and am getting my masters. I take what jobs I can get because school doesn't pay for itself, not for me at least. I also enjoy security work.

    Quote Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
    Does anyone think this tread is for real??????
    Picture to follow.

  5. #35
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    Picture of?.............................................. This could be scary
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  6. #36
    Ex Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    I would look for a new job. Security and bouncing jobs are a recipe for trouble in my opinion. Not to mention, will your employer back you if you have to use one of your weapons while working? Are they aware of you carrying them when you do?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    I would look for a new job. Security and bouncing jobs are a recipe for trouble in my opinion. Not to mention, will your employer back you if you have to use one of your weapons while working? Are they aware of you carrying them when you do?
    Nope. Even without a weapon I will be fired immediately if I get into any type of fight that's not some kind of hold or control. What I carry is for my own personal protection after I remove someone and they want revenge, at the point I need my weapon lethal or otherwise I will not care if I have job or not. I have been told by my employer to get a ccw but the issue of actually carrying it not in written policy. Some of us do, some of us don't. Then some of us bring Samurai weaponry and some of us..don't. Plausible deniability I guess.

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    I would look for a new job. Security and bouncing jobs are a recipe for trouble in my opinion. Not to mention, will your employer back you if you have to use one of your weapons while working? Are they aware of you carrying them when you do?
    I helped put myself through undergrad doing armed security way back in the late 1970s and early 80's. It's shift work so you can usually find a shift that will jive with your class schedule and still have a little time to party. If you're young and in good shape you can do things like that. I did for many years. The best security job in the world, IMHO is the small private or large private hospital that might still be in the country trauma net for emergencies. That was an awesome work situation, especially being single, lol. Bouncing in a bar where the potential for violence is high is also high stress and huge liability these days, but it wasn't so fraught with legal issues back when I did it, even though it was the height of the "cocaine cowboy" era of Miami that was the center of the show Miami Vice. We used to get the show's stars in the club all the time. Annual dues were about $20K back then. It was not unusual for busboys and security to get several hundred a night in tips outside the salary. I left for another gig, though when somebody on my shift with whom I had a personal conflict let slip to some of the dopers that I might have ties to local or federal law enforcement and I didn't want to go for a swim in the bay with cement overshoes....
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ampinf View Post
    Then some of us bring Samurai weaponry and some of us..don't. Plausible deniability I guess.
    SAMURAI? Don't tell me, he draws the Katana sword and says: "In the end, there can be only ONE!"
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Everybody is a sensei, and I wasn't there for Rodney King, but I do know the PPCT traing for the baton. I would like to see one be effectively used in a crowded room full of drunks who would percieve the swing and strike of one of their own as a " beat down". How long do you think you would last in that mob?

    In a potentially volatile enviroment like that, one has to be very cautious and aware of the potential to ignite the crowd.
    I've seen the entire Rodney King video from start to finish and not just the portions the media used to whip the mobs into riot mode. It's a pretty damning presentation on the effectiveness of the PR24 against a suspect that is high on PCP as he was. Sobering, it is.

    In a crowd, you're very correct, I wouldn't like to go to a baton because you can't control the 360 degrees with any amount of certainty. I'm not going to debate my martial arts classes with you, it's irrelevant, but it works very well for me NOW in a classroom environment where I make my living. I've spent the last 16 years of a 22 year career in education in an inner city high school and had to defend myself several times from the thugs. Using Aikido, I've never had anybody scream aggression and sue, because Aikido only works if force is first directed against you then you redirect that force in other directions. So you can't just sort of grab somebody and put a "hurt" on them with Aikido, it simply doesn't work that way. But if they try to grab YOU it's a whole 'nother story! But back to the club, that's why I like the contact stun devices or taser maybe. I used that Nova XR5000 a couple of times in that job, but the first time was the most spectacular:

    We had a guy go berserk at closing. He was coked out of his mind and on PCP as well. None of the bouncers could lay a hand on him. He just shrugged them off or belted them across the room. They were breaking things on him, I'm pretty sure. The manager yelled at me to get into it even deeper with him and I replied they don't pay me to get killed being stupid, so I rushed down to the security office and got the stun gun. Little contact thing about the size of a pack of cigarettes. I grabbed it and made sure it was charged and rushed back into the main dining room. No cops had been called (against club rules unless somebody died). As my partners were being hurled over the tops of the tables, I crawled underneath them until I was right beside him and then I reached up and zapped him square in the ummm POSTERIOR. I held the contact for about 3 seconds and he went down like a sack of rocks. His eyeballs were fluttering open and shut and he was semi conscious. My partners all approached him v-e-r-y carefully and ascertained that indeed he was OUT.

    Then they proceeded to do a "Mexican Hat Dance" on his face. We had to call EMT. When they were hauling him out in the ambulance, one of the guys shook him lucid and pointed to me. He said: "See that skinny dude over there? He just got out of the army and he did ALL this to you in a matter of seconds." The guy started hollering that he was never coming back, ever! LOL That did not enhance my cool and I was not amused with my crew for a good many weeks until I was certain he wasn't laying for me in ambush. But that stun gun worked 100% as advertised.

    Now, maybe because it was a very early model of the new technology, maybe it was waaaay more potent than what is seen now, but I find that loud FRYIN' BACON sound really does cut thru the fog of confusion fast. Who doesn't remember the punk on tv screaming "PLEASE DON'T TASE ME BRO!" and then screaming in pain? A stun device's main advantage is in deterrence or in offering a useful distraction or to de-escalate.
    Last edited by ExSoldier; August 12th, 2011 at 05:24 PM. Reason: spelling & format
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #41
    Distinguished Member Array hardluk1's Avatar
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    You had better go talk to your DA and ask if what you carry is LEGAL in your state. It will not be in many. I can not think of a darn reason to carry 2 guns, 2 knife ,2 can of mass/spray and the baton or two guns alone in NC will get you a visit to the jail house. Good luck being a educated bouncer/security guy yes you do sound over the top, by a mile. But you new that or you would not have asked.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    I would look for a new job. Security and bouncing jobs are a recipe for trouble in my opinion. Not to mention, will your employer back you if you have to use one of your weapons while working? Are they aware of you carrying them when you do?
    That's easier said than done. This is what he's doing now, he's educated and applying for other jobs, no big deal. In that vein, we should be telling LE, mil, contractors, heck, even impound lot workers that they should be looking for lower risk employment.

    I've been doing some close protection work lately now and then, and the pay usually is very high. I also do security consulting which can pay extremely well also. Unfortunately, things are slow and jobs aren't consistent, but it will continue to get better. Now, I wouldn't want to take a job where there's any real risk for $15 an hour, for example, but people do what they have to do and I understand that. I also understand the lifestyle and the attraction to those types of jobs. It can be exciting and rewarding. But, I'd imagine there's quite a difference between bouncer pay and protection pay, but who knows.

    Just to throw this out there….

    Bouncer killed - Google Search
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    My only problem with a list like that is control. I don't want anything more on my person than I can control.

    I carry a pistol.
    I carry a backup pistol in the wintertime (coat pocket).
    I carry a knife (folding, clipped in pocket) about half the time.
    I carry a flashlight (super bright for nighttime, works great on aggressive dogs too).

    I don't have any training for defensive knife work, but it's there. I probably wouldn't use it as a weapon for that reason. I might get some OC spray at some point, but I don't have much pocket space left. I could carry a lot more, but if I'm ever in a fight of some kind, I want to minimize what might fall out of my pocket or get lifted and used against me.

  14. #44
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    Depending on the club, you may need all that AND more.

  15. #45
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    We had a young club bouncer killed recently (the first item if you do the google search above) who tried to remove two brothers from an establishment in downtown Orlando. Bad stuff.
    Don't suppose there is any way you could conceal a small M-4 .223, is there? Having put myself through college doing some incredibly dangerous jobs, I tip my hat to you sir for doing what ya' gotta do to achieve your goals.

    You be careful, and post of pic of your Masters diploma when you receive it....and let the remarks here slide off your back. You're simply being mindful of making sure you go home at the end of your shift.......and that's all that matters.
    Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.

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