What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG? - Page 2

What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG?

This is a discussion on What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by BugDude If a situation warrants my CCW clearing leather: "Bang, Bang....thump!" +1 I am with you, if I ever had to draw ...

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Thread: What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG?

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    If a situation warrants my CCW clearing leather: "Bang, Bang....thump!"
    +1 I am with you,
    if I ever had to draw my weapon on someone like that the only sounds you'd hear are bang, bang, bang.
    I am not a cop, I am not issuing warnings, I am ending a threat to my life and I am doing it as fast as I possibly can.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    Double tap?
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  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    more often than not, they will make the decision for you.
    when confronted by superior force, they will drop their weapon, may or may not smile at you and walk away.
    yup, just turn their back on you and walk away.

    they darn well know you are not going to shot them in the back
    and right they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
    I'd make it real simple and tell him/her to run.
    Not really a good option IMO. You have him in your sights and he's complying with your orders, why would you want to turn him loose to apply his trade another day? Hold him until the police arrive and let them take it from there.

    added: If they attempt to leave, without doing anything threatening, I'll let them walk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhamrichard View Post
    If I had sufficient reason to pull my weapon, chances are very good he's already been shot..
    What he said...
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  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    There are many good posts already I will compile and add to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    If I'm not immediately shooting him, I'm ordering him prone on the ground.



    I don't understand your question as why ordering him on the ground would not be a safe thing to do because you're not a law enforcement officer? You command him (convincingly) to get on the ground and don't move! You don't have to approach him or lay hands on him to do that.

    The reason I would order him prone on the ground is that as long as he is standing there facing me, he continues to be a threat. Maybe not a threat which warrants shooting him, but he could charge me and try to disarm me at any time.

    As long as he's on his feet and facing me, his mind is going to be going in overdrive trying to figure out a way to either overpower me, or get out of the situation. That's why I'll command them to shut up and I won't engage in conversation with them.

    Of course, if he turns and runs away, I'm letting him go, but I am certainly not going to just tell him to run away! That is just letting him off the hook to continue robbing and possibly killing people, and totally irresponsible on your part.

    (Once you decide to intervene and draw your gun, you can't be a pantywaist about it. You have the responsibility to take control of the situation and not let the bad guy dictate the rules of the situation. If you can't do that, leave your gun at home and join the masses of folks who choose to let the bad guys run the show).

    Once he is prone on the ground I'll order him to turn his head away and not talk. Now I have somewhat more control over the situation. As the police show up, I can put my gun away and not appear to be standing there pointing a gun at someone.

    Of course, he may refuse to comply when I order him to get on the ground. That's fine. I'm not going to shoot him unless he makes a threatening or furtive movement, but just be aware that as long as he's on his feet, he's more of a threat than he would be if he was on the ground sucking tile.

    If you still have your gun in your hand when the police arrive, follow their instructions to the letter. They are not going to shoot you unless you fail to comply, or do something stupid like turn and point your gun at them.

    As you are following their commands to drop your weapon, don't argue with them, but do point out he's the bad guy and you will press charges. Continue to follow the commands of the police. They will take control of the situation. They are not going to let the bad guy get away.
    Over all Bark'n gives good advice if you find yourself in this situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    If a guy is robbing a store at gunpoint and I get the drop on him,BANG BANG,I'm not a cop anymore,if the guy sees me and drops his weapon,I'm gonna tell him keep your hands above your head fingers spread,slowly drop down on one knee,now the other one,cross your feet at the ankles,DONT MOVE I will consider it a threat,call 911
    I like dukalmighty's way of putting them on the ground. Only thing I would do different is have arms spread straight out from the shoulders with hands turned up.
    Quote Originally Posted by rably View Post
    No way I would tell the BG to run. We can "what if" all day, but in my opinion, that's just like drawing but having no intention of ever pulling the trigger. What if, as he's running, he changes his mind and grabs a child that is in the store and comes back to get what he didn't the first time?

    If things get bad enough that I have to draw my weapon, something extraordinary is going to have to happen to prevent me from pulling the trigger. I don't want to see the news the next day or next week about how he tried to rob someone else and ended up killing them. If you're going to tell him to run, then you're better off simply not getting involved. No matter how much you think you're in control of a situation, if a BG feels threatened, he may do something stupid and that's when things can get noisy.

    If you can't/won't follow through, stay out of it.
    There is no way I would tell someone to run, what happens a day or two later would be more than my conscience could stand.

    I can not really see myself in this situation WHY? Because if I draw my weapon it is not to order someone to stop what they are doing. I try to draw for one reason only and that is to shoot, my time to draw and put hit on target is less than 2 sec. Meaning he will have to be fast to not get shot. My trigger speed for follow up shots is what I call fast also (don't really know the speed) but I shoot in 3-5 shoot bursts, I don't see the BG on his feet 3-5 sec after shots are fired.
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  7. #22
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    You stopped a robbery in progress. I'm not sure I would be inclined to do that unless someone's life is in danger. But you did so let's continue with the scenario.... As some mentioned in one of the above posts, if my gun comes out of my holster it is usually followed by a loud report in the order of a "bang, bang." I am no longer a LEO and do not have a partner to call for back up. But again, you now have him with his hands up. He is still a threat. Have him place is hands behind his neck and lock his fingers together. Now have him get on his knees, keeping his hands locked behind his head. If he attempts any movement, it is going to be painfully obvious whereas if he is prone, he could easily bolt up and come at you. You must convince him that you will in fact shoot him if he moves....in other words, be in obvious command of the situation. And make sure in all the commotion that someone dials 9-1-1 and informs the dispatcher that an armed good guy has an armed robber being held at gunpoint. You don't want the police barging in, seeing you with a gun, and then shoot you.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    I see many discussions on an SD emergency in the middle of it, and some on what to do when police arrive, what to say etc., but not on this: IMMEDIATELY after you have the BG disarmed and momentarily not a threat: what's your next move?

    An example is best: say whatever the circumstances - and they could include you stopping a robbery in a store - you drew your weapon in time to have the BG stop and he now has his hands in the air. Let's say also you've ordered him to drop his weapon, or withdraw his hand from his pocket if he threatened to shoot but did not show a gun, just indicated it was in his pocket and he'd kill you - and he, in fact, has complied. You have your weapon pointed at him and his hands are up. You know he does not have immediate access to any weapon you may not have seen, though you don't know if he has another or not. You know the one you are aware of is now not an issue.

    What next? You could tell him to run away to get the threat done with. Or you could take the risks of ordering him to lie down and hold him, hopefully safely, until the police arrive (and face them arriving with a gun in YOUR hand) - course, in terms of ordering him prone, you aren't a LEO so you may not order him to do it safely for you. You could search him, or not. A number of choices. All crucial.

    So, any input on what to do in this moment?

    Thanks.
    After I draw down on someone and he's still standing there I've done something terribly wrong or I missed. I will make a quick mental note that I either need more training or range time or both. While I'm moving for cover and reloading what he does next is entirely up to him. If he flees, whew! Since I'm not an LEO, and do not play one on the internet, I'm not going to order or command him to do anything. Now if the same BG commits another crime later on, that is not my responsiblity. I'm not responsible for what criminals do. My HCP is for one purpose and one purpose only and that is to extend my life for one more minute if possible.
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  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    I try to draw for one reason only and that is to shoot, my time to draw and put hit on target is less than 2 sec. Meaning he will have to be fast to not get shot. My trigger speed for follow up shots is what I call fast also (don't really know the speed) but I shoot in 3-5 shoot bursts, I don't see the BG on his feet 3-5 sec after shots are fired.
    2 seconds from draw to COM is indeed quick. have you tried your hand at
    some IDPA or Plate matches? even if you do not play, you can observe to see the difference between those who are quick and
    those who are fast ( under 1.5 seconds dbl tap COM).

    when practicing one reaches a point where to achieve still more it may be necessary to join in a IDPA club, have some private lessons and/or purchase a timer ( PACT for ~$100)
    it helps define what we think vs what is truly happening.
    and as one becomes more proficient, that difference gets smaller.
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  10. #25
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    I do not intend to sound like I am bragging, because I am not a very good target shooter but with some minimal training, (3 full day classes) I can get from holster to getting off 2 com shots in a bit over a second, my best is 1.08, usually I average somewhere around 1.25 or so, the distance I practice at is anywhere from 3 to 10 feet. The really crack shots are under .9 seconds
    the moral to the story is to get with a good SD trainer, learn to point shoot from the hip and then find a range where you can draw and fire and then go to the range and practice often.

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    I do not intend to sound like I am bragging, because I am not a very good target shooter but with some minimal training, (3 full day classes) I can get from holster to getting off 2 com shots in a bit over a second, my best is 1.08, usually I average somewhere around 1.25 or so, the distance I practice at is anywhere from 3 to 10 feet. The really crack shots are under .9 seconds
    the moral to the story is to get with a good SD trainer, learn to point shoot from the hip and then find a range where you can draw and fire and then go to the range and practice often.
    apvbguy, I agree this is not the place for bragging rights, with that said my times run close to what you posted and that is from the same way I carry everyday, not from OC speed holster. And yes my draw times where with a timer from about 3 yds.

    I don't do IDPA or Plate matches WHY? because, my understanding is they do not allow my way of carry. If I did do them it would be for practice only and I practice and train only from my concealment way of carry. Does that mean I have never shot IDPA type scenarios or plates? NO, just not in public. I train and practice not for ego or show but to learn all I can so I can go home safe to my family if a situation ever sticks its head up.

    And yes for those who have seen me post I do carry 2 XDs both left and right. I have never timed my left handed draw, but it would be slower.

    As to how do I carry-- AIWB with shirt out
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    I will only draw my weapon in a life threatening situation. And the draw is followed with "bang, bang" until there is no longer a threat. I doubt if there will be time between the time I draw and the time I fire for the BG to drop his gun/knife/baseball bat and raise his hands!
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  13. #28
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    Perp has ceased to be a threat.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    There are many good posts already I will compile and add to.

    Over all Bark'n gives good advice if you find yourself in this situation.

    I like dukalmighty's way of putting them on the ground. Only thing I would do different is have arms spread straight out from the shoulders with hands turned up.

    There is no way I would tell someone to run, what happens a day or two later would be more than my conscience could stand.

    I can not really see myself in this situation WHY? Because if I draw my weapon it is not to order someone to stop what they are doing. I try to draw for one reason only and that is to shoot, my time to draw and put hit on target is less than 2 sec. Meaning he will have to be fast to not get shot. My trigger speed for follow up shots is what I call fast also (don't really know the speed) but I shoot in 3-5 shoot bursts, I don't see the BG on his feet 3-5 sec after shots are fired.

    Yes, but something near 80% of the time a gun comes out - and I take it that is for the purpose of firing - the BG runs. So, it seems to happen regularly.

    By the way, I posted this originally, and I didn't mean you pulled a gun to order him to stop, he either just did, or you drew successfully just a beat after he pulled a knife and was about to run at you - and he stops. At that point, I'd order him to drop the knife - if he did quickly I wouldn't shoot. Once he stops the threat is suspended - I'm not sure shooting when he freezes and obviously stops you legally can shoot - so I wouldn't, besides: it's much better in all ways, including the legal aspects, NOT to kill someone if you can avoid it. Screaming out; "DROP IT" or pausing as he does do that on his own while prepared to shoot but holding - is also ethical: the point is to stop the attack, it's stopped, the goal is not to kill after all, (though that may have to be).

  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    Yes, but something near 80% of the time a gun comes out - and I take it that is for the purpose of firing - the BG runs. So, it seems to happen regularly.

    By the way, I posted this originally, and I didn't mean you pulled a gun to order him to stop, he either just did, or you drew successfully just a beat after he pulled a knife and was about to run at you - and he stops. At that point, I'd order him to drop the knife - if he did quickly I wouldn't shoot. Once he stops the threat is suspended - I'm not sure shooting when he freezes and obviously stops you legally can shoot - so I wouldn't, besides: it's much better in all ways, including the legal aspects, NOT to kill someone if you can avoid it. Screaming out; "DROP IT" or pausing as he does do that on his own while prepared to shoot but holding - is also ethical: the point is to stop the attack, it's stopped, the goal is not to kill after all, (though that may have to be).
    walleye, when I said and posted "if I draw my weapon it is not to order someone to stop what they are doing." What I was saying is that I will not draw my gun if I am not ready to fire. I see a threat and feel the need to stop that threat as soon as possible. Meaning if I have drawn, in less than 3-5 sec he will have been shot several times. Most likely COM and head shots, unless he is very fast and I can stop my reaction fast enough he will most likely be on the ground, but not from me asking him.

    Now as you post "By the way, I posted this originally, and I didn't mean you pulled a gun to order him to stop, he either just did, or you drew successfully just a beat after he pulled a knife and was about to run at you - and he stops. At that point, I'd order him to drop the knife - if he did quickly I wouldn't shoot. Once he stops the threat is suspended - I'm not sure shooting when he freezes and obviously stops you legally can shoot - so I wouldn't, besides: it's much better in all ways, including the legal aspects, NOT to kill someone if you can avoid it. Screaming out; "DROP IT"
    If for what ever reason the threat is no long there you DO NOT have the right to shot. Then you would need to take control and go from there, putting him on the ground or if he just walks away there isn't much you can do. You are also right that it is better Not to have to shoot someone and avoid doing so if at all possible. But the time for talk and screaming to Stop or Drop it is before you ever think about drawing. For me once you draw the time for talk is over and it is time to shoot and do it as fast as you possibly can and still make good solid hits. Only good hits count.

    You also post "Yes, but something near 80% of the time a gun comes out - and I take it that is for the purpose of firing - the BG runs. So, it seems to happen regularly." My thinking on that is their and my reason to draw is different. I think most people draw their gun hoping to scare the BG off. I draw to kill him, if I draw it is not to scare.

    There are those who would say I am slow to actually draw my gun but I say I am fast to the trigger once it is done.

    Yes there is a saying "Don't mess with an old man, he will just kill you" and yes it applies to me.

    I see most shots being fired insde of 15 feet most being less than 10 feet. It will be close and personal. For me that means most shots will be done pointshooting.

    Hope I have made my thoughts clear. More questions feel free to ask again.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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