What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG? - Page 4

What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG?

This is a discussion on What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I noticed a recent poll on how many people have ever had to draw their gun before and how many have had to draw and ...

Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 149
Like Tree54Likes

Thread: What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG?

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,051
    I noticed a recent poll on how many people have ever had to draw their gun before and how many have had to draw and fire shots.
    You might be thinking of Gary Kleck's paper on this subject.

    Despite this stated willingness of gun owners to shoot under certain circumstances, most defensive uses of guns do not in fact involve shooting anyone. Data from the National Self-Defense Survey indicate that no more than 8% of the 2.5 million annual defensive gun uses involved a defender who claimed to have shot their adversaries, or about 200,000 total.
    In other words, you are 92 percent more likely to resolve your conflict by the presentation of your firearm. These are statistics. I'm sure that you are drawing on the "beep" of the timer and snapping off your rounds in 1.2 seconds etc. Yes, you are Rambo, slaying your adversaries first and talking later. Yep. Gotcha.

    But the numbers say that the act of your drawing, the sound of you racking that shotgun, the very fact that you are not acting like a victim but instead going into predator mode will in most cases change the dynamics of the situation dramatically in your favor. And I hope so - because dealing with the aftermath of a shooting is expensive and time-consuming.
    Magnum and jem102 like this.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."


  2. #47
    Member Array rably's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
    Correct you are, and it's more than obvious after reading the majority of these posts that the same is true in relation to attitude and mentality. Wisdom, and even common sense, prevails in every situation in "real life" over the "me Tarzan" or Rambo BS. Gun forums are great places for the "chest thumping mutual admiration crowd" to agree or better one another with rhetorical speak. As living in different worlds, so is every situation/scenario different. Mention one scenario, and before the discussion is half over you have dozens of scenarios on the table and imaginations and egos going wild and off track. If someone is living in a gang infested hell hole metropolis, and feels they must carry three or four guns, a hundred pounds of extra ammo, a knife, pepper spray, brass knuckles and a Captain Midnight Secret Decoder Ring, good for them. If they want to shoot first and ask questions later, that's they're prerogative. Choices & consequence make the world go 'round. My choice is to tell the BG to run, "if I have that choice".
    I appreciate your opinion, but I do not agree with it and I see no "wisdom" or "common sense" to it. If you can help me understand what good will come from that, I will be happy to re-assess my opinion. Otherwise, I can only hope that the BG's next (and there most likely will be a next) victim understands your approach better than I do. I am certain that the BG will appreciate the opportunity you provided for him to continue practicing his "trade". As an individual who has had a BG point a loaded weapon at me, I believe that I am at least slightly qualified to speak to the "real life" situation, rather than being classified as a Tarzan or a Rambo.

    I am not saying that either opinion is right or wrong. I am not saying that I WILL shoot. However, I AM saying that I WILL NOT, under any circumstances, TELL him to run - I simply think that is irresponsible.

  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,492
    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    My biggest concern ordering him to the ground would be to watch his hands... because of this video (that I first saw because of a link posted on DC):


    Hidden Hands

    So, I'd just as soon have them on their knees cross- legged, hands laced. And any move is likely to get me to shoot. But, generally, I agree with those that have said once it's out of the holster, loud noises will follow.
    I agree anytime you trying to control the movement of someone you need to control and see the hands first. This is one reason I like dukalmighty's post and way of doing the put down to the ground to start. You have taking control of the BGs hand and control their movement from then on.

    Originally Posted by dukalmighty
    If a guy is robbing a store at gunpoint and I get the drop on him,BANG BANG,I'm not a cop anymore,if the guy sees me and drops his weapon,I'm gonna tell him keep your hands above your head fingers spread,slowly drop down on one knee,now the other one,cross your feet at the ankles,DONT MOVE I will consider it a threat,call 911
    I feel for the young it is easier and faster to get to their feet from their knees than if they are laying face down. Also from their knees they can fall to their side drawing from the waistband and firing quickly. (it's slow for us old folks no matter how we are put) That's why I say to move them on from where dukalmighty had them to laying face down with hands and arms spread wide at shoulder height, hands turned upwards and feet crossed at the ankle. I also want them looking away from me.

    Try different ways of being on the ground and how you can get back to your feet the fastest. That would be the last way you would want the BG.

    What ever you do and how you do it control the hands see them clearly for they are what is needed to hurt you.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  4. #49
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    You might be thinking of Gary Kleck's paper on this subject.



    In other words, you are 92 percent more likely to resolve your conflict by the presentation of your firearm. These are statistics. I'm sure that you are drawing on the "beep" of the timer and snapping off your rounds in 1.2 seconds etc. Yes, you are Rambo, slaying your adversaries first and talking later. Yep. Gotcha.

    But the numbers say that the act of your drawing, the sound of you racking that shotgun, the very fact that you are not acting like a victim but instead going into predator mode will in most cases change the dynamics of the situation dramatically in your favor. And I hope so - because dealing with the aftermath of a shooting is expensive and time-consuming.
    you post is very condescending, apparently you aren't grasping the situation, training with a timer, developing a fast draw stroke by shooting after the beep is called training, developing muscle memory, repetitions of drawing and firing is a skill and like any skill it needs to be developed and then practiced to remain proficient at the skill, so yes if you think training and practicing is rambo like, I plead guilty as charged because if I am ever going to draw on a BG it is because he has already presented his own weapon, be it a broken bottle, a club, a knife or a gun, I am not going to give that BG the opportunity to decide how he plans on proceeding, I am going to take whatever prudent steps I can to terminate the threat. By prudent I means if I backing off is possible, I will, but more than likely if I draw it will be barking real quick, there is only one rule in a gun fight, he who shoots first and hits his target wins, 2nd place is wounded or dead, I really don't want to be second. that said in over 30 years of carrying I've only drawn once and I was able to disengage without firing a shot or being shot at.

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,051
    apparently you aren't grasping the situation
    Apparently, you don't understand statistics.

    As linked above, if you are attacked 100 times, in 92 of those events you will not need to fire. In 8 of them, you will.

    I understand that you are ready to kill, blah blah, etc. Great.

    Me too.

    But the math seems to indicate that the BGs take great pains to avoid being shot.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  6. #51
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    your thinking is very naive and that is how this conversation is ending for me.
    in the end we should be all on the same side, books, studies and theories are great for those who never venture out into the real world.

  7. #52
    Member Array Kahnkem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    158
    If I am ever in this situation I would simply say lay down slowly and cross your legs with your arms out, if you deviate from what I just said I have 17 rounds that will correct your mistake! Maybe I would say it with less snotty attitude and say I will shoot if you deviate but you get the point!

    Matthew
    2nd Amendment, the one that protects the rest!

  8. #53
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,492
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahnkem View Post
    If I am ever in this situation I would simply say lay down slowly and cross your legs with your arms out, if you deviate from what I just said I have 17 rounds that will correct your mistake! Maybe I would say it with less snotty attitude and say I will shoot if you deviate but you get the point!

    Matthew
    I think you are on the right path, but remember control his hands as soon as possible at all times. Don't let him hide them while doing what you say.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  9. #54
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,492
    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    Apparently, you don't understand statistics.

    As linked above, if you are attacked 100 times, in 92 of those events you will not need to fire. In 8 of them, you will.

    I understand that you are ready to kill, blah blah, etc. Great.

    Me too.

    But the math seems to indicate that the BGs take great pains to avoid being shot.

    shockwave, you are right on the statistics numbers, but I ask how many times has statistics saved someone from getting shot or killed in any other of the many way possible?

    Now you train and practice to fight your fights like the 92 events say you need to. So you only need to draw your gun to win, he will run or stop his stupid action. Now we all know we fight like we train, one night you find yourself in one of those other 8 events where he is still moving full speed to kill the Mo**** F***er. While you are standing there looking, because you know he will stop,because that's how you train. Your dead. I'll send flowers.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  10. #55
    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Northern AZ
    Posts
    1,004
    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    Apparently, you don't understand statistics.

    As linked above, if you are attacked 100 times, in 92 of those events you will not need to fire. In 8 of them, you will.

    I understand that you are ready to kill, blah blah, etc. Great.

    Me too.

    But the math seems to indicate that the BGs take great pains to avoid being shot.

    I think the entire point of this forum is being prepared for the worst....isn't it? Isn't a large percentage of what we do in preparation for worst case scenarios (i.e. that 8%)? The likely hood of me being in a car accident isn't all that great, yet I put my seat belt on every time I drive. Drilling yourself on drawing your weapon quickly and smoothly is good for more than just the 8% you seem to keep bringing up, being able to put your gun smoothly into action and get a "jump" on the BG is what stops many encounters before they happen, and directly relates to the scenario the OP brought up.
    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    1,968
    the fallacy of statistics is that one begins to think in probabilities

    in a SPECIFIC situation it will 100% happen one way or 100% the other way.

    assuming it is your choice to make, you will either shot the BG or you will not.

    or explaine to us how you will 92% not shoot him...
    Arthritis sucks big-big
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  12. #57
    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Northern AZ
    Posts
    1,004
    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    you will either shot the BG or you will not.

    or explaine to us how you will 92% not shoot him...
    Nicely said, and more to the point than my comment.
    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

  13. #58
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    1,968
    play with some more numbers.....

    for events reported it runs 4 presentations of a self-defense weapon for each BG fired on
    my guess is it is more like 10 to 1 as most go unreported--it was after all a non-event and a report takes hours.

    of those who presented without having to fire either or both of 2 things happen--
    --their SA was working and they played the potential BG such that he passed on this potential victim
    thus the gun may or may not have even been displayed
    --the hand goes to the gun and the BG seeing this may begin to move off or the gun clears leather and is pointed to low ready or even at the BG; where by the BG retreats

    the last one should be called in for the police tend to believe the 1st to report and you do not want them looking for you as the man with a gun.

    can you actually shoot some one??

    tested in battle, have the mindset to act..
    not re-act--but act...he who hesitates is toast. BG's read a vic, can sense a 'will he' mindset.
    they are bg's by social definition; this in no way makes them stupid.

    for all who punch paper and and speak up as to how they will "bang, bang, flop"
    how many have even held the grip while facing a potential threat? have cleared leather and had their finger on the trigger in real life against real people?

    we train as it may be the very 1st thing we heaven forbid may have to do--shot another to save ourselves.
    but it is the very last thing we want to do. society ingrains this into us as small children. it will take a terrible action or forced consequence to modify that social fixation.

    soldiers and the police try to train this out of their men for their own life's are at risk.
    how do we train?
    and you can not hesitate---are you sure you can do it?
    shockwave likes this.
    Arthritis sucks big-big
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  14. #59
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    1,968
    for those of us who take our responsibilities to self and family seriously,
    the price is vigilance and willingness. learned and earned.
    Arthritis sucks big-big
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Under a Volkswagen somewhere in Florida
    Posts
    9,439
    Amen, brother.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.

Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

21 foot rule original

,
can i draw my weapon if i see a robbery in process
,
can i hold someone at gunpoint who came on my property
,
can you shoot someone in kansas trying to break in
,
email magnum-d.bg loc:us
,
idpa events erie pa
,
if i feel in danger can i draw my ccw
,
in pa.concealed c w can use deadly force only when your life is in danger
,

once you have drawn a conclusion, what do you do with it

,
police orders drop your weapon hands up face down
,
what happens if you draw a gun on someone
,
what should i do if i have to draw on someone concealed carry forum
Click on a term to search for related topics.