What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG? - Page 7

What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG?

This is a discussion on What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If the BG drops his weapon, he is no longer a threat. If he turns and runs, the police have to find him. In Virginia, ...

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Thread: What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG?

  1. #91
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    If the BG drops his weapon, he is no longer a threat. If he turns and runs, the police have to find him.

    In Virginia, you have a duty to retreat, you have to have communicated your desire for peace, and the level of defense has to be commensurate to the level of threat...and all of that has to take place before the draw. Basically, it has to be a "there was no other choice or be killed" scenario. That frames my point of reference. I pray that I am never faced with those circumstances.
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    If the BG drops his weapon, he is no longer a threat. If he turns and runs, the police have to find him.

    In Virginia, you have a duty to retreat, you have to have communicated your desire for peace, and the level of defense has to be commensurate to the level of threat...and all of that has to take place before the draw. Basically, it has to be a "there was no other choice or be killed" scenario. That frames my point of reference. I pray that I am never faced with those circumstances.
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  3. #93
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    I see many discussions on an SD emergency in the middle of it, and some on what to do when police arrive, what to say etc., but not on this: IMMEDIATELY after you have the BG disarmed and momentarily not a threat: what's your next move?
    I don't clearly agree with the logic being used. IF I draw my gun, the next thing that is occurring is my pulling the trigger.... otherwise .... I didn't need the gun. "BG disarmed and momentarily not a threat" .... if he pulls a gun on me and is threatening my life to the point I need my gun..... there will be no disarming nor anything that is momentarily about anything.

    I never pulled a gun on anyone I didn't shoot at. There was only one time when in the process of pulling the trigger I caught out of the corner of my eye them start to lower theirs, and I stopped the trigger pull. That guy was wihin 1/10th of an inch of being dead. It was his lucky day that I even saw it.

    From drawing it to first shot, is about .3 to .5 of a second. Otherwise, it's not taken out of the holster ... unless I"m clearing my house then it's in hand ....
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  4. #94
    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
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    It is quite probable to have to draw and then not be able to have a shot.
    I won't pull the trigger unless I know where the bullet is going.
    To say "If I would have shot if I had to pull" is a slight over generalization.
    I know that is most peoples' intention do fire if they draw, but common
    sense would seem to dictate that we can't be aware of every possible circumstance.

    Entertain the hypothetical the sake of discussion.

  5. #95
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    if you have trained a bit, you should know where your shots are going to wind up, the only thing that might stop me from pulling the trigger is not having a clear, certain target

  6. #96
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Assuming that you have the bad guy disarmed and prone on the ground. With your free hand you dial 911 on your cell phone. Does anyone have a problem with giving the 911 operator a description of yourself so that when the police arrive they know (or at least have a pretty good idea) which one of you is the bad guy?
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  7. #97
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    telling them what you are wearing would be wise

  8. #98
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    I never pulled a gun on anyone I didn't shoot at.
    With all due respect, "Never". Really? ... Why should I believe you when you contradict yourself in the very next sentence?

    There was only one time when in the process of pulling the trigger I caught out of the corner of my eye them start to lower theirs, and I stopped the trigger pull. That guy was wihin 1/10th of an inch of being dead. It was his lucky day that I even saw it.
    So you drew and didn't shoot which says your first sentence is at best an exaggeration. Never means never, not even once. No exceptions, ever. Spin and exaggeration are the mortal enemy of credability. At this level, if you have to exaggerate to make your point, you don't get the point.

    Fitch
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  9. #99
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    Assuming that you have the bad guy disarmed and prone on the ground. With your free hand you dial 911 on your cell phone. Does anyone have a problem with giving the 911 operator a description of yourself so that when the police arrive they know (or at least have a pretty good idea) which one of you is the bad guy?
    That seems like a heck of a good idea.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  10. #100
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    Assuming that you have the bad guy disarmed and prone on the ground. With your free hand you dial 911 on your cell phone. Does anyone have a problem with giving the 911 operator a description of yourself so that when the police arrive they know (or at least have a pretty good idea) which one of you is the bad guy?
    I would say it is wise to pass that info on to the 911 operator, problem is you have no control over what is passed on to the LEO in route to the sence. You may say you are the GG holding the BG on the ground with a gun, but what the LEO gets on his radio is "man with gun". If there is anyway of doing it I see it being good to not have the gun in hand on cops arrival. One advantage to BG not being able to see you from where and how he is being held. (head turned away)
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  11. #101
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    I would say it is wise to pass that info on to the 911 operator, problem is you have no control over what is passed on to the LEO in route to the sence. You may say you are the GG holding the BG on the ground with a gun, but what the LEO gets on his radio is "man with gun". If there is anyway of doing it I see it being good to not have the gun in hand on cops arrival. One advantage to BG not being able to see you from where and how he is being held. (head turned away)
    I agree. Knocking him out with a stun gun while he's prone would probably allow you to safely holster your gun also. Just kidding.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  12. #102
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    i thought if a gun is pulled thats just as bad as actually firing it because one should only draw a weapon if they fear great bodily injury or death, Also if you pull a gun on a person and cops arrive and they see they do not have a weapon you can be in serious trouble

  13. #103
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by defensive007 View Post
    i thought if a gun is pulled thats just as bad as actually firing it because one should only draw a weapon if they fear great bodily injury or death, Also if you pull a gun on a person and cops arrive and they see they do not have a weapon you can be in serious trouble
    Drawing a gun is not the same as actually firing it. It is entirely possible, and apparently it happens a lot, maybe even most of the time, that a person carrying a gun for defense is being threatened with the very real possibility of severe injury or death by an unarmed person due to disparity of force, the guy is huge, or he has a club or, knife, or other blunt force type of weapon, and as soon as the gun appears and the assailant realizes continuing the attack is going to be expensive, he backs off and runs away. That is in fact probably the very best outcome for the victim especially if he calls it in before the attacker does. Based on what I've read, ending an encounter because you drew your gun is one heck of a lot less messy than dealing with the aftermath of shooting someone.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  14. #104
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    If you are in an incident where another is attacking you without displaying a weapon using your gun may not be warranted and in some places displaying your gun in the manner mentioned can leave you open to charges of brandishing or menacing, however if a person using a club or knife to attack you is attacking with a deadly weapon and using your gun to end the threat is warranted.
    You have to be very careful about how, when and why you draw your gun.

    Many gun carriers also carry non lethal tools like an asp, OC spray or knives to use before bringing it to the level of having to use their guns in situations where using deadly force is not warranted.
    I carry an asp which I would more than likely deploy if I was attacked by someone without a weapon, the gun is the last ditch alternative used to end a threat to life.

  15. #105
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
    Drawing a gun is not the same as actually firing it. It is entirely possible, and apparently it happens a lot, maybe even most of the time, that a person carrying a gun for defense is being threatened with the very real possibility of severe injury or death by an unarmed person due to disparity of force, the guy is huge, or he has a club or, knife, or other blunt force type of weapon, and as soon as the gun appears and the assailant realizes continuing the attack is going to be expensive, he backs off and runs away. That is in fact probably the very best outcome for the victim especially if he calls it in before the attacker does. Based on what I've read, ending an encounter because you drew your gun is one heck of a lot less messy than dealing with the aftermath of shooting someone.

    Fitch
    A pause of awareness - adding no measurable time until the shot (this was tested) - is the way most LEO's are trained once the gun is targeted. Cuts down on bad-shoots.

    It's not hard to see why, or why a BG can alter his behavior while you are drawing. Some people draw in 2 sec. at the range, OK but it's not the range so add 1 sec. for a draw in a real incident when you don't know you'll be drawing beforehand like you do at a range . - might be more realistic to add 2 sec but let's say it's just 1. Add another sec when you are moving hand and arm and clothing away to put your hand on the gun. At a minimum that gives the BG 5 seconds to see and react to the gun being drawn or know it's about to be drawn. Count to 5 so it takes 5 seconds. You can see there's time enough to drop the knife, throw the hands up in surrender if there is no weapon, pivot to run and/or start to run, and/or shout "PLEASE! DON"T!"

    So, if you decide to shoot when all this starts and fire as soon as the gun is up, you could easily kill a man who is obviously no longer attacking you. You could also miss that it's not a BG, and now that it's out all the way from his pocket, that "gun" is a cell-phone - that type of new info. You could also shoot a nearby person who in 5 seconds appeared and had stepped near the line of fire.

    Any of these would cause you to be guilty of murder, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, and with knowledge you killed an innocent person or shot someone needlessly who was no longer a threat.

    I think the "beat of awareness" before the shot is a good and necessary habit if at all possible. (Sometimes it wouldn't be)

    One other thing: most who have been in real SD shootings report physiological responses to "about to die" moments that the body has evolved to prepare for grave injury. This is seen in any near-death emergency, not just shootings. Aside from Tunnel Vision and Auditory Exclusion there is also interruption in the normal functioning of the hands. This is due to blood being shunted away to the deeper and larger muscles needed to flee and to the internal organs to better survive massive injury. Likely a reasonable chance drawing a gun in these conditions could be the worst draw of your life.
    Last edited by walleye; August 16th, 2011 at 07:05 PM.

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