What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG?

This is a discussion on What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I see many discussions on an SD emergency in the middle of it, and some on what to do when police arrive, what to say ...

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Thread: What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG?

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    What to Do After You Have the Draw on the BG?

    I see many discussions on an SD emergency in the middle of it, and some on what to do when police arrive, what to say etc., but not on this: IMMEDIATELY after you have the BG disarmed and momentarily not a threat: what's your next move?

    An example is best: say whatever the circumstances - and they could include you stopping a robbery in a store - you drew your weapon in time to have the BG stop and he now has his hands in the air. Let's say also you've ordered him to drop his weapon, or withdraw his hand from his pocket if he threatened to shoot but did not show a gun, just indicated it was in his pocket and he'd kill you - and he, in fact, has complied. You have your weapon pointed at him and his hands are up. You know he does not have immediate access to any weapon you may not have seen, though you don't know if he has another or not. You know the one you are aware of is now not an issue.

    What next? You could tell him to run away to get the threat done with. Or you could take the risks of ordering him to lie down and hold him, hopefully safely, until the police arrive (and face them arriving with a gun in YOUR hand) - course, in terms of ordering him prone, you aren't a LEO so you may not order him to do it safely for you. You could search him, or not. A number of choices. All crucial.

    So, any input on what to do in this moment?

    Thanks.
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  3. #2
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    If I'm not immediately shooting him, I'm ordering him prone on the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by walleye
    you aren't a LEO so you may not order him to do it safely for you.
    I don't understand your question as why ordering him on the ground would not be a safe thing to do because you're not a law enforcement officer? You command him (convincingly) to get on the ground and don't move! You don't have to approach him or lay hands on him to do that.

    The reason I would order him prone on the ground is that as long as he is standing there facing me, he continues to be a threat. Maybe not a threat which warrants shooting him, but he could charge me and try to disarm me at any time.

    As long as he's on his feet and facing me, his mind is going to be going in overdrive trying to figure out a way to either overpower me, or get out of the situation. That's why I'll command them to shut up and I won't engage in conversation with them.

    Of course, if he turns and runs away, I'm letting him go, but I am certainly not going to just tell him to run away! That is just letting him off the hook to continue robbing and possibly killing people, and totally irresponsible on your part.

    (Once you decide to intervene and draw your gun, you can't be a pantywaist about it. You have the responsibility to take control of the situation and not let the bad guy dictate the rules of the situation. If you can't do that, leave your gun at home and join the masses of folks who choose to let the bad guys run the show).

    Once he is prone on the ground I'll order him to turn his head away and not talk. Now I have somewhat more control over the situation. As the police show up, I can put my gun away and not appear to be standing there pointing a gun at someone.

    Of course, he may refuse to comply when I order him to get on the ground. That's fine. I'm not going to shoot him unless he makes a threatening or furtive movement, but just be aware that as long as he's on his feet, he's more of a threat than he would be if he was on the ground sucking tile.

    If you still have your gun in your hand when the police arrive, follow their instructions to the letter. They are not going to shoot you unless you fail to comply, or do something stupid like turn and point your gun at them.

    As you are following their commands to drop your weapon, don't argue with them, but do point out he's the bad guy and you will press charges. Continue to follow the commands of the police. They will take control of the situation. They are not going to let the bad guy get away.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    If I'm not immediately shooting him, I'm ordering him prone on the ground. I don't understand your question as why ordering him on the ground would not be a safe thing to do because you're not a law enforcement officer.

    The reason I would order him prone on the ground is that as long as he is standing there facing me, he's a threat. He could charge me and try to disarm me. Of course, if he turns and runs away, I'm letting him go, but I am certainly not going to tell him to run away. That is just letting him off the hook to continue robbing and possibly killing people.

    Once he is prone on the ground I'll order him to turn his head away and not talk. Now I have somewhat more control over the situation. As the police show up, I can put my gun away and not appear to be standing there pointing a gun at someone.

    Of course, he may refuse to comply when I order him to get on the ground. That's fine. I'm not going to shoot him unless he makes a threatening or furtive movement, but just be aware that as long as he's on his feet, he's more of a threat than he would be if he was on the ground sucking tile.
    I just mean, in terms ordering him prone, cops may do it in certain sequence of orders, to make sure the BG doesn't use the move as a way to quickly go for another weapon, something like that. Don't know about that part, except what I see on TV shows. May not be a problem just saying; "Lie down". It was just a thought.......

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    Member Array Magnum's Avatar
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    I'd make it real simple and tell him/her to run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
    I'd make it real simple and tell him/her to run.
    That's certainly an option. Maybe the next robbery he does is the one when he kills your wife while she's in the store instead of you being there.

    Stick up artists are creatures of habit. They are not going to reevaluate their way of life and earning a living based on your benevolence. They just become more emboldened. Also, they frequent the area's where they live, so chances are more than just slim that one of your family or loved ones will encounter him in the future.

    They are lazy and all about immediate gratification. If they are drug addicts, they also don't think very clearly. He may not return to that particular store for a while, but he's likely going to continue to operate in the area. They are too lazy to go clear across town and find a new area to work.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
    I'd make it real simple and tell him/her to run.
    There's another consideration in telling him to run: it's safe for the moment while you have a gun on him and you're close - but unless he was thoroughly searched - which I wouldn't do because I wouldn't want to get that close to him - you don't know what he has on him. Maybe he still has a gun in his pocket. You tell him to run and he does, then angles over behind a tree or car and whips the gun out. You're screwed, standing in the open while the BGs behind cover - tables turn quickly - and one thing for sure:


    HE won't be telling YOU to run away.
    Last edited by walleye; August 13th, 2011 at 07:26 AM.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If a guy is robbing a store at gunpoint and I get the drop on him,BANG BANG,I'm not a cop anymore,if the guy sees me and drops his weapon,I'm gonna tell him keep your hands above your head fingers spread,slowly drop down on one knee,now the other one,cross your feet at the ankles,DONT MOVE I will consider it a threat,call 911
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    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Well, if I have to draw my weapon on a BG chances are that I'm pulling the trigger. But in the rare case that I draw my weapon and the attacker is disarmed or drops his weapon, I would order him to lay face down on the floor with his hands over his head and his legs spread open while I call the police to come arrest him. I would keep a distance of at least 15 feet between the attacker and me while I point at him with my handgun. If he tries to do something stupid, he's getting one right in the back of his head.

    I would prefer to make sure that the BG is arrested, so that he will never commit an attack again and is not a threat to society.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

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    Member Array Magnum's Avatar
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    Yep, anythings possible.

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    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
    I'd make it real simple and tell him/her to run.
    This works!
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    Member Array Bhamrichard's Avatar
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    If I had sufficient reason to pull my weapon, chances are very good he's already been shot..
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    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
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    The guy I pulled on and had run out robbed 2 more stores within a week before he was caught.

    I didn't tell him to run he kinda did that on his own, but if you have the chance to hold him, do it.
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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    This is a relevant, interesting question. As lawful, sensible and responsible gun owners, we don't want to shoot anybody if we don't have to.

    According to the law in every state, we can't draw our weapons and point them at somebody unless the situation is extremely serious. And, that situation has to be so serious as to warrant the firing of the gun.

    But what if at the moment you prepare to fire the threat de-escalates and the BG puts his hands up or similar, saying, "don't shoot" or the like? Well, here's what I read in my CJ101 textbook on taking down a supect:

    Turn around!
    Kneel down on the ground!
    Put your right hand on the ground!
    Put your left hand on the ground!
    Lower your body down!
    Spread out your arms and legs!
    Turn your head to the right!
    Don't move!
    So that's the textbook approach to a controlled takedown. In real life?

    "GET THE (expletive) ON THE GROUND!" or "GET THE (expletive) DOWN!"
    If he or she bolts for it, in a safe direction, you can't shoot 'em in the back. But if they comply, then position yourself to where they can't see you and you have them covered and summon law enforcement.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    Member Array rably's Avatar
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    No way I would tell the BG to run. We can "what if" all day, but in my opinion, that's just like drawing but having no intention of ever pulling the trigger. What if, as he's running, he changes his mind and grabs a child that is in the store and comes back to get what he didn't the first time?

    If things get bad enough that I have to draw my weapon, something extraordinary is going to have to happen to prevent me from pulling the trigger. I don't want to see the news the next day or next week about how he tried to rob someone else and ended up killing them. If you're going to tell him to run, then you're better off simply not getting involved. No matter how much you think you're in control of a situation, if a BG feels threatened, he may do something stupid and that's when things can get noisy.

    If you can't/won't follow through, stay out of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alachner View Post
    I would prefer to make sure that the BG is arrested, so that he will never commit an attack again and is not a threat to society.
    You have more faith in the legal system to rehabilitate perps than I do.
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